Discussion:
"Survivor: Pearl Islands" episode 11 rant
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Mojo
2003-11-28 20:24:17 UTC
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"Midnight in Tijuana"
"Loved Ones, Lies, and Dumbasses"
"The grandmother of all lies" (obvious)
"Baghdad Jonny and the search for the MBIs"

Jeff: "Burton said it best. It's not about trust anymore. It's about
Mutually Beneficial Interests."

Note: this episode was only 39 minutes long. Trend? And, even though the
person voted off should have, by my reasoning, left last week, at least
Drake is more or less sticking to their anti-Morgan strategy. Or maybe
now they're in a we-need-Burton-to-catch-fish strategy. Hard to say.

Jon: "I though tonight's Tribal Council was probably one of my proudest
moments in this game." Yeah, right up there with being drunk at a
previous TC, hitting on Darrah during a Reward Challenge, your UPN
wrestling slogans, and your crying and whining at the drop of a coconut.

Asshole.

Jon, referring to the missing fish: "That was the most idiotic, childish
thing I've seen since this game has begun." Yeah, but that's only
because you don't have a mirror.

On the seventh day of Survivor, Mark Burnett gave to me...
Seven boring contestants,
Six rotting fishes,
Five clueless jurors!
Four Drakes a'dumbass,
Three Morgan whiners,
Two evil Outcasts,
And one lying son of a bitch.

Christa: "I can't believe Rupert got voted off tonight. Maybe I've been
too cocky all along, thinking I know what's going on." Yeah, especially
when your so-called alliance partner's vote was the one that sealed
Rupert's fate. Maybe next time you'd better make damn sure you and
Sandra are on the same page before you vote? Maybe now, with your big
wall o' Rupert gone, you'll start _playing_ the game? Before it plays
you?

Maybe. Maybe. Maybe.

Sandra, to Lying Bastard Jon, and the whole group: "You are a lying son
of a bitch. You cannot be trusted. You are a liar. I hope these three
ladies turn on your ass, 'cause you cannot be trusted. You are a lying
bastard." Note: she's saying all of this just after knocking over the
bucket of fish that Rupert caught earlier that day. Sandra doesn't want
the others enjoying the fruit of Rupert's Herculean labors. Further
note: the only time we see anyone eating fish this week is when Jon and
his deviant homosexual fornicating Loved One are left alone for a day at
Drake. I'd say that I hope they choke on it, but I suspect they are both
used to inserting long, clammy objects into each other's mouths.

Burton: "Who threw the fish out?" Sandra? Noooo, because she's too busy
yelling and complaining. Note: Sandra understands American politics.
Whenever a politician or political party is guilty of something, look to
them to scream loudest and longest, and try to deflect attention by
complaining about something else while assigning blame to others. Sorta
like when the Fox News Channel screams on and on about being "fair and
balanced", when anyone with a brain can clearly see they are anything
but. Both Fox News and Jon share a similar definition of "fair".

Burton: "Christa, you did it." Yeah, there ya go, Burton. No proof
whatsoever, and you immediately accuse both remaining Drake women. Both
remaining members of Rupert's alliance. Both of whom you can't wait to
vote off. Yeah, like you haven't had it in for Christa from Day One.
S'matter, she turn you down before puppy dog Michelle latched on to your
leg? Oh wait, that doesn't matter, 'cause you're obviously gay. 31, San
Francisco, single, well-groomed, great with a blow gun and other long,
cylindrical objects, would rather play with guys, can't find a Loved One
other than your grandmother to fly in to save your butt...need I go on?
You know you listed "Maxim" and "Stuff" in your Favorites just to throw
people off. I mean, you actually _like_ "O'Reilly" and Schwarzenegger?
Definitely gay. And you're a marketing executive, which makes you Evil
beyond redemption. Have a nice day.

Poor Christa. She just lost her security blanket, and now this. And
she's just not the type of person to try and falsely accuse someone else
just to save herself. Which means, of course, that anyone wanting to
find someone to help them get to an F3 or even an F2 situation may want
to make an alliance with Christa. So, the situation may yet work to her
advantage.

Lill: "I think she [Christa] did it." And you're basing that opinion
on..what? Burton's biased ravings? Sandra's denials? What, did your
scouting skills allow you to carefully track the fish-dumper's
footprints back to Christa? Was there an acute fish smell on Christa's
fingernails? Long blonde hairs on the fish? Did the hermit crabs who
found the fish during the night come and whisper in your ear? Should we
now refer to you as Aquawoman, Queen of the Seven Dumbasses? Lillian, if
you've got any proof, or even a decent working hypothesis as to why
Christa and not anyone else, please, elucidate. Otherwise, get off your
damn horse.

Sandra: "They never pointed the finger at me." Well, why should Burton
think you were upset about Rupert getting voted off? You helped send him
home!

Reward Challenge: what, you call _this_ a reward? Colby and Momma
spending the night together again? Do we really want to see that? And
why now? It's what, Day 28? As in, 11 Days left? These people can't go a
week without seeing their Loved Ones? I find the timing suspect. Maybe
if the reward had been slightly altered, say, seeing a Loved One versus
having a nice meal (to be determined by the others, 'natch), or seeing a
Loved One versus winning a new car (remember when "Survivor" gave away
cars?), that might have made it more interesting. But spending the night
with Mom or some guy from high school you're not even dating is just not
interesting television.

Jon: "I can't wait to see two people in particular go into the ocean.
Christa and Sandra."
Jeff: "Sandra, here's your husband Marcus."
Sandra: "Marcus, go over and beat up this lying weasel who wants me
walking a plank. Beat him up good."
Jeff: "Christa, here's your fiance and soon-to-be husband, Pete."
Christa: "Pete, go help Marcus."
Jeff: "Burton, here's your mother, Dee Dee."
Dee Dee: "Burton, have you been a good boy? Eating all your vegetables?
Leaving that lying rat bastard weasel's hershey highway alone?"
Burton: "Mommmmmm..."
Jeff: "Jon, here's your buddy, Dan."
Jeff: "Yo, Dan! You step any lighter in those loafers and you'll float
away! Better hold on to the rope for support, ya freak. Jon, _this_ is
your 'Loved One'? Amazing that you're still single. Or, perhaps you
aren't."


Ok, folks, here's where it occurs. This is the moment that changes
"Survivor" forever. Forget your Twists, your False Merges, your
Outcasts. This is it: having a "Loved One" spread a deliberate lie
during a challenge. The only saving grace here is that the reward
"earned" through the lie isn't something substantial, like, say, a
chocolate bar or Immunity. But this tactic has been introduced, and that
genie is out for ever. From now on, anything a Loved One says at a
challenge, or writes in a letter or says in a video, can and must be
viewed with skepticism by the other players. Grandma only lives twice.

Jon: "Oh dude! How's grandma? How's grandma?"
Thunder D (and no, I don't want to know how he got _that_ name): "The
owls are not what they appear."
Jon: "Dude, I said 'How's grandma'! You know, grandma?"
Thunder D: "Agent Prufrock says Morgan's treasure is still buried."
Jon: "DUDE! SHUT THE FUCK UP AND TELL ME 'HOW'S GRANDMA'?!?"
Thunder D: "Jon, I'm very cross with you. Did you know you left the
toilet seat up before you left? And where did you learn to sort laundry?
I'm still trying to get all your puce away from the mauve."
Jon, fuming: "Ok, one last time. Dude, how's grandma?"
Thunder D: "She died, dude."
Jon: "Dude?"
Thunder D: "Dude."
Jon: "Dude."
Thunder D: "Did you get the letter?" Translation: they had this
well-planned. They had a letter ready to go, and I'm sure they made a
video as well. Jon shakes his head. Jeff stands by, non-chalant,
uncaring. If he knows the truth at this point, he does an admirable job
of self-restraint.
Jeff: "Jon, you went from really happy to really sad."
Jon: "It was either going to be my buddy or my grandmother, coming. And,
uh, my grandmother's not here for a reason." Umm, yeah, like she's too
old to fly to Panama just to spend two minutes with you? You're what,
29, Jon? That would make "grandmother", what? 70? 75? 80? And we're
supposed to believe you were going to make her, healthy or not, come all
this way?

Why, oh why, did no one question him on this?

Jeff: "What happened?" Jeff couldn't care less; his body language gives
it away. Why isn't anyone there picking up on it?
Jon: "She's...she's not around." Well, of course she isn't. She's, as
you'll say later, home watching Springer. Or, more likely, she's
hometaping her latest appearance on "Cops".
Jeff: "Sorry for that news." Oh, come on. "I'm sure everyone here is
sorry."
Jon: "I don't know. I could hope to win this and get some more
information."

Commercial. dun dun DDDUUUNNNNNNNnnnnnnnn.

Ok, a couple of notes: first, Jon never actually told a lie. He left
that up to Twinkletoes. He _participated_ in a deception, true, for all
the good it'll do him, but he didn't say the words. Second, Jon wisely
chose to sit next to Lill. Lill believes anything anyone tells her. I
suppose you could say her compassion supercedes her judgement, or you
could just call her a complete and utter dumbass. Hasn't anyone there
told her about Jon thinking himself The Puppet Master? Wasn't Lill
listening when Sandra chewed Jon out the night before, about all his
deceptions and manipulations?

Okay, yeah, you're right: there is no other word for it. Dumbass!

Anyway, notice how it's Lill, and not Jon, who helps the lie along by
repeating it to the group as the challenge progresses. Jon doesn't need
to do a damn thing at this point but sit back and win a night of hot
anal sex with his homosexual co-fornicator. Jonny Fairplay gonn' be
Jonny Foreplay tonight!

Lill, to Sandra: "His grandmother just died." Yup, you're really using
your brain this week.

The questions are all rather standard, but a few of the answers are
interesting. Burton's nickname is "Burton" (hey, he's not an O'Reilly
fan for nothing, ya know!) Darrah prefers "meat and potatoes" (wow, what
stunning imagination), while her boyfriend thinks she likes "cornbread
and milk" best. Oh yeah, that's one doomed relationship. I hope you're
taking notes, Ryno. You may still have a shot.) Both Burton and Jon
prefer "steak", and I'm going to refrain from drawing any parallels
between gay men and their meat preferences until I see the stats.
Christa's dream job is "housewife and mother" (awww), while Pete thinks
she wants to be a "tourist" (professional tourist?) Darrah wants to be a
model, while her boyfriend says "nurse" (doomed, I say, doomed!)

Darrah: "We're gonna have to talk when we get home." No kidding.

Next question: what is the one personality trait that could cost your
Survivor to lose this game? Jon's homosexual bed buddy writes "attitude
and mouth", but I swear it looks like he wrote "lying" and erased it.
Lill wrote "kindness", while her husband wrote "over sympathetic".
Again, no kidding. And that may cost a few others their torches, as
well. There must be some questions that were asked but not shown,
because as Lill's husband turns around at one point, his board reads
"father's death", which I don't think is a personality trait or favorite
food.

For the record, Burton lets Jon claim his "reward", noting "it's the
worst day of his life." The others signal their agreement, dumbasses
all. Jon then hugs Tijuana and Darrah. Probably the first time he's
hugged a woman in years. Jon then races over to hug his soulmate,
Twinkletoes. Burton, you maroon. You ignoranimous.

Burton: "Jon's lost about thirty pounds, so take it easy on him."
Twinkletoes D: "I thought he gained ten." See? Conclusive proof. Only an
intimate lover would make such a remark.

Sooo, Jon and his lover get to bask in the glory of a private night at
Camp Balboa (god, I'll bet it's not even a month before a gay porn dvd
of this is released..."Jonny Foreplay and his Thunderous Glory Hole"),
while Burton and His Beauties get dumped on an Island With No Name. No
phone, no lights, no motor car, not a single luxury! It's Robinson
Crusoe, as primitive as can be!

Pssst, hey, Burton? Hey, now's your chance to show everyone what a
He-Man provider you are. Five starving women, a desert island, and you
with your big ol' machete and a few matches. I just hope you don't
experience any, umm,...performance anxiety, y'know?

Mighty Hunter Burton displays his skills by sneaking up on a moldy old
coconut and hacking it with his machete. Gee, I hope those matches taste
good tonight.

Sandra: "Home sweet home." Yeesh, I'm skipping dinner at your house.

Lill: "I've gotten to know Jon. He hurts just as much as anyone. My
husband has to understand that... this is what we had to do. For him to
have some time to talk over his grandmother's death."

Meanwhile...

Jon: "That was a brilliant performance, sir! Now come, give daddy a
kiss."
Twinkletoes D: "Thank you! Don't mind if I do."
Jon: "Did you like mine?"
Twinkletoes D: "I'll like yours a whole lot better tonight after I've
painted you to look like a snake and greased up your backside with fish
oil."
Jon: "Well now, aren't you in luck? I've been saving up coconut husks
under my secret bush, and I've knitted you a Burton wig and beard. Oh
yeah, mama's gonna get some lovin' tonight!"

Jon: "My grandmother's sitting home, watching Jerry Springer right now."
Yup, it's always Springer Time back home in the ancestral Dalton
doublewide palacial mansion.

Jon: "Okay, here's my camp. There's my flag, with my name right in the
center."
Twinkletoes D: "The snake."
Jon: "And here's the bucket of fish I caught. Over there's all the items
I looted from Morgan. Back behind the shrine they built in my honor is
the treasure chest I found in the rain while everyone else was asleep.
See those buckets there? That's all the leftover food I bought on the
first day, after I sold Morgan's raft and two of their tribe to local
cannibals. And here's the beach where I taught everyone how to swim and
fish."
Twinkletoes D: "Oh, Jon, you're such a god."
Jon: "Here, let's drink all their water and grill a nice, big fish I
caught yesterday."
Twinkletoes D: "Ooo, did you use your spear?"
Jon: "Oh, yeah. I'll spear you, baby."

Strangely enough, Mark Burnett couldn't find any footage from that night
to air on CBS at 8:30p. Thank you, Mark. Thank you.

Day 29, 10 days left, back to the ol' scheming and plotting... the
stranded players return to Balboa, Jon has a tearful farewell with his
homosexual crime partner, and...no one asks about Jon's dearly departed
grandmother. Wtf? Didn't we just sit through you all telling us how much
you felt for Jon, and how you let him win Reward so he could get more
information? Aren't you all the least bit curious as to what Dan told
Jon? Why is no one bringing this up?

Sandra thinks Tijuana could go either way (that's _not_ what I mean. Get
yer mind outta the gutter.) Of course, this far into the game, if your
alliances aren't all lined up? And people aren't sure which way you'll
vote? Watch out, because you've got a target on your back. Especially if
the only assets keeping you around are that bigger targets were in the
way before. Anyone can gather wood, fetch water, keep the fire going.
How are you at fishing and hunting? Who is beholden to you in alliances?
Who, besides Darrah, has got your back? Why should anyone vote to keep
you around, after you've shown how easily you can be swayed? Jon was
dead on when he said you'll never go wrong, counting on the greed factor
out here, especially with two desperate Morgan women.

So, Sandra points out to Tijuana that, if they don't band together now,
Burton and Jon will pick them off one by one. They want Christa gone
because she's the strongest woman. Then Tijuana, because they don't care
about Darrah. (Hmmm...is that a clue, MB?? Will flying completely under
the radar win it all this time?) And it's a sound strategy, provided you
are prepared to deal with the food issue for nine days. (Which, as it
turns out, Sandra and Christa aren't. Or maybe they just traded one
security blanket for another.)

Another clue for future Survivors: when you want to sneak off and have a
strategy session with your alliance partner, don't do it at night. It's
much easier to see when others are lurking nearby, listening to your
conversation, during the daytime. (Btw, thank you, MB, for adding
additional night time cameras. No more off-camera Ted/Ghandia sexual
hijinks on this show, nosiree!)

Immunity Challenge: Where's the damn SpellCheck button, Jeff?

Jeff: "You will use the letters from these words [survivor pearl
islands] to form twenty new words."
Christa: "Jeff, that's not fair. We need a word with an 'm' and a 'b' so
I can spell 'dumbass'."
Jeff: "No profanity allowed. You are also not allowed to spell out 'Jon
is a liar', 'vote Jon off now', 'all America hates Jon', or 'die Jon
die'. Got it?"

Oh, I just realized something. Now I know where I've seen Darrah before!
She's Nova from "Planet of the Apes". Just thought I'd throw that in...

Here's a word list (not _the_ word list, since I don't know if these are
the only possible words and I suck at games like this): and, pad, pan,
lead, pea, pear, purse, prose, slaved, dip, leap, rind, pal, live, sand,
darn, loan, liver, lover, raise, sail, land, aisle, node, praise, sandal
(not 'sandle', which Jon blew), noise, visual, nail, rose, sad, red,
spited, snared, paired, plural, pelvis, saver, rendar or lendar (the one
Christa got wrong), pirate, loved, reason, season, survive, railed,
revival, roll, deal, love, learn, plaid, plain, plead, savior, vision,
person, navel, naval, savor, liaison (which Burton blew by leaving off
the second 'i'), round, sundae, spread, slave, slain, lasso, versus,
virile, driven, driver, assure, surreal, devious, vanilla, proud,
devour, soldier, solder. Yeesh.

What? Jeff blew it? They have to go to Sudden Death, with "outwit
outplay outlast" as the new words? And they have to make words of four
letters or more? In only a minute? Aww, screw you, Probst. I'm not doing
this again. Where's my check?

Jeff: "For the first time, a woman will be wearing Immunity." Immunity,
the fresh new fragrance by The Tiffany Network. Now available at
WalMart.

Nova wins Immunity. She smiles, mute.

Tijuana, suddenly feeling all empowered and invincible and stuff,
confers with Darrah: first Burton, then Christa. Sandra, feeling all
empowered and vindictive and stuff, confers with Christa: first Burton,
then Plan Number Two.

Sandra: "The plan is for Burton to be crushed tonight. Just like Rupert
was crushed, he'll be crushed."
Christa: "Right."

Meanwhile, we get shots of Burton loading up his spear to go fishing.
Fishing. Catching food to feed a hungry tribe. Which, by the way, no one
else seems to be doing. Ladies, are you watching?

Jon: "I understand the decision, but I, you know, I would prefer Christa
[go], but I understand why."
Tijuana: "Right. And because we have majority you have to go with the
majority or else your butt's on the line. Ha ha ha. All right, cool."
Wow, look who suddenly became Ms. Amazonian FullOfHerself, flaunting
_her_ power openly in front of Jon. And she didn't even win Immunity.
Bad, bad move. Don't think Jon won't immediately rush to his Drake
compatriots and tell them exactly what you just said.

Bye, Tijuana. You were lovely and graceful, spirited and beautiful,
right up to the moment you got greedy and egomaniacal and became a
complete dumbass. Enjoy your parting gifts.

Tribal Council. Sandra relates the missing fish story, minus her, umm,
pivotal role. "We were all hungry, and wanted to eat Rupert's fish, but
nobody ate jack."

Rupert rolls his eyes.

Jeff moves on to a discussion about the Reward Challenge. Suddenly,
Jonny Foreplay's slimeball smile is replaced by a look of apprehension!
Will Jeff reveal his lying ways? Jeff nonchalantly asks about seeing the
Loved Ones.

Jeff: "Then Jon shares some information with us that, lo and behold, his
grandmother's passed away." "Did you get the information you wanted?"
Jon: "Yeah, definitely one of the saddest days of my entire life. But I
have to say, ahh, it r-r-really meant a lot to me for everyone t-tuh
c-come together like that f-for me and and, uhh, I'll never be able to
thank them enough for that." Jon's eyes dart back and forth as he
speaks. Jon's technique needs a little work.

Jeff: "Jon, are you willing to betray anybody in this game to get what
you want?"
Jon: "Several days ago, yes. At this point, I don't think so." Riiight.
Well, at least people not named Sandra can feel free to chew out Jon
back at camp now.

Here's how the voting went:

Sandra (votes Tijuana): "You came to our tribe and you tried to delegate
what we were going to do and how we were going to do it. Frankly, we're
sick and tired of you. By the way, happy birthday. Take care, goodbye,
adios."

Darrah (votes Burton): "Burton, I'm voting for you only because you're
the biggest threat we have right now and this is the only chance that
you won't win immunity. Thanks for being a friend and being respectful
to T and I for bringing us into the alliance with you."

Christa (votes Tijuana): "You're very rude, disrespectful; you like to
order people around. And I just don't want you around anymore." Well,
I'm sure she'd say the same about you, except that you're being edited
differently.

Burton (votes Tijuana): "T, I know it's your birthday tomorrow and I
don't think one of us is going to be here to see it. But I have some
advice for you a day early. Never assume you are in control of a
situation until you're 100 percent assured."

Lillian (votes Tyuana): "Tijuana, it's a little bit of payback time.
You didn't think anything about getting rid of me. You broke our
alliance with some wonderful people. They brought you in and saved you.
And now you want to get rid of our main source of food, Burton. I say
no. I'm here to protect Burton. I think it's time for you to go."

Tijuana (votes Burton): "Burton, this vote is for you, not because
you're not a good person. You're not only a good person, you're a hard
worker around camp. You raise our spirits and we appreciate everything
you've done. So it's nothing against you personally. It's merely the
fact that you are the strongest player here mentally and physically. On
top of that, as you know, I heard Jon and you talking. And you had a lot
of differences from what you were telling us, versus what you told Jon.
And it just contradicts our alliance. So that's why this vote is for
you, but again, good blessings to you. I hope that in the end when this
is all over we'll be friends."

Homosexual Foreplay (votes Tijuana): "Say your prayers. Take your
vitamins and (you will never go wrong)." Whatever.

Aww geez, six left and those two stupid Outcasts are _still_ around!?!
They're practically guaranteed to make the Final Four! Oh well. I really
don't care who wins at this point, because, once again, it'll be some
untalented, mediocre schemer who didn't excel at anything except
avoiding placing a bullseye on their back. Yay us.

Jeff: "Burton said it best. It's not about trust anymore. It's about
Mutually Beneficial Interests."

Next week: Thursday! Club Med! Girls versus guys! Burton refuses to
commit to Lill! And the latest commercial clearly points to Jon getting
voted off! Oh, Santa, please. I'll be extra good, I swear...

mojo
Dgates
2003-11-28 21:59:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mojo
Burton: "Christa, you did it." Yeah, there ya go, Burton. No proof
whatsoever, and you immediately accuse both remaining Drake women. Both
remaining members of Rupert's alliance. Both of whom you can't wait to
vote off. Yeah, like you haven't had it in for Christa from Day One.
S'matter, she turn you down before puppy dog Michelle latched on to your
leg? Oh wait, that doesn't matter, 'cause you're obviously gay. 31, San
Francisco, single, well-groomed, great with a blow gun and other long,
cylindrical objects...
I read this and I have to ask: If Sandra has done something you
disliked, would you be making a bunch of slams about how she's
Hispanic and she's only good at handling tacos and burritos?

Or if it were Tijuana, would you be laying into her for being black?

Or do you view being gay as different from being Hispanic or black,
such that you can use it to slam people you don't like?
Post by Mojo
Jeff: "Yo, Dan! You step any lighter in those loafers and you'll float
away! Better hold on to the rope for support, ya freak. Jon, _this_ is
your 'Loved One'? Amazing that you're still single. Or, perhaps you
aren't."
... Jon never actually told a lie. He left that up to Twinkletoes.
Both Burton and Jon
prefer "steak", and I'm going to refrain from drawing any parallels
between gay men and their meat preferences until I see the stats.
Next question: what is the one personality trait that could cost your
Survivor to lose this game? Jon's homosexual bed buddy writes "attitude
and mouth", but I swear it looks like he wrote "lying" and erased it.
Jon then hugs Tijuana and Darrah. Probably the first time he's
hugged a woman in years. Jon then races over to hug his soulmate,
Twinkletoes.
Jon: "That was a brilliant performance, sir! Now come, give daddy a
kiss."
Twinkletoes D: "Thank you! Don't mind if I do."
Jon: "Did you like mine?"
Twinkletoes D: "I'll like yours a whole lot better tonight after I've
painted you to look like a snake and greased up your backside with fish
oil."
Jon: "Well now, aren't you in luck? I've been saving up coconut husks
under my secret bush, and I've knitted you a Burton wig and beard. Oh
yeah, mama's gonna get some lovin' tonight!"
Jon: "Here, let's drink all their water and grill a nice, big fish I
caught yesterday."
Twinkletoes D: "Ooo, did you use your spear?"
Jon: "Oh, yeah. I'll spear you, baby."
I'm dying to know: What state are you from? Do you have any gay
friends or acquaintances? Would you be comfortable having one of them
read this?

My guess would be that you view homosexuality as a deviant lifestyle
choice; therefore being anti-gay is different than being racist. You
have no gay friends, but maybe once had a gay coworker and, no, you
wouldn't talk to him like this or want him to read your latest rant.

Am I far off?
--
***@spamfreelinkline.com
jess
2003-11-28 22:47:09 UTC
Permalink
I'm dying to know: What state are you from? Do you have any gay friends
or acquaintances? Would you be comfortable having one of them read this?


Sorry to be so blunt, but wtf does where one live have to do with anything?
Where are you going with that?
CatwhispererALH
2003-11-30 08:49:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by jess
I'm dying to know: What state are you from? Do you have any gay friends
or acquaintances? Would you be comfortable having one of them read this?
Sorry to be so blunt, but wtf does where one live have to do with anything?
Where are you going with that?
I agree. I live in Oklahoma, and everyone "on the coasts" thinks we all live in
teepees and ride horses to work. Ergo, we would be stupid, or perhaps even
totally in the dark about homosexuality.

That is why "Jess" asked that.

And we all know that every single person in NYC and LA has IQs over 200 and can
leap tall buildings in a single bound!

kat

(btw sweetie, we do have gay people here. shhh, it's a secret! LOL)
Mojo
2003-11-30 09:24:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by CatwhispererALH
Post by jess
I'm dying to know: What state are you from? Do you have any gay friends
or acquaintances? Would you be comfortable having one of them read this?
Sorry to be so blunt, but wtf does where one live have to do with anything?
Where are you going with that?
I agree. I live in Oklahoma, and everyone "on the coasts" thinks we all live in
teepees and ride horses to work.
That's not true. I flew over Oklahoma once, and I swear I saw a covered
wagon, and maybe even one of those horseless carriages... ;)
Post by CatwhispererALH
Ergo, we would be stupid, or perhaps even
totally in the dark about homosexuality.
That's not _stupid_. Stupid is having an ice hockey team in a major city
where it never snows. Or naming that team 'The Mighty Ducks". Stupid is
living in a city where our "pride and joy" Christmas tree is nothing
more than a few lights on wires strung from the top of the Capitol
Records building. I could go on...
Post by CatwhispererALH
That is why "Jess" asked that.
And we all know that every single person in NYC and LA has IQs over 200 and can
leap tall buildings in a single bound!
Hey, my IQ is only 160. But...I do know an amazing woman in San Jose who
I think fits your bill...
Post by CatwhispererALH
kat
(btw sweetie, we do have gay people here. shhh, it's a secret! LOL)
And there's conservatives in Hollywood, too. shhh
Douglas Berry
2003-12-01 01:15:52 UTC
Permalink
Lo, many moons past, on Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:24:00 GMT, a stranger
called by some "Mojo" <***@home.com> came forth and told this
tale in alt.tv.survivor
Post by Mojo
That's not _stupid_. Stupid is having an ice hockey team in a major city
where it never snows. Or naming that team 'The Mighty Ducks".
As a fan of Los Tiburones Del San Jose, I have to agree. About the
name, that is.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
Douglas Berry
2003-12-01 01:14:29 UTC
Permalink
Lo, many moons past, on 30 Nov 2003 08:49:20 GMT, a stranger called by
some ***@aol.com (CatwhispererALH) came forth and told
this tale in alt.tv.survivor
Post by CatwhispererALH
I agree. I live in Oklahoma, and everyone "on the coasts" thinks we all live in
teepees and ride horses to work. Ergo, we would be stupid, or perhaps even
totally in the dark about homosexuality.
I spent a little time at Fort Sill, and that's not true! No more than
one-in-three ride horses to work. :)

Of course, I live in Silicon Valley, which means that I am a computer
nerd, right? Wrong! I can use this thing.. but I get lost when I try
to change anything.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
Justice Cow
2003-12-01 17:16:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by CatwhispererALH
I agree. I live in Oklahoma, and everyone "on the coasts" thinks we all live in
teepees and ride horses to work. Ergo, we would be stupid, or perhaps even
totally in the dark about homosexuality.
A HA!!

we stayed the night in OK. across the street from our motel was a motel
of consisting of a circle of giant teepees. it was like the twilight
zone.
Caliban
2003-12-02 00:11:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Justice Cow
Post by CatwhispererALH
I agree. I live in Oklahoma, and everyone "on the coasts" thinks we all live in
teepees and ride horses to work. Ergo, we would be stupid, or perhaps even
totally in the dark about homosexuality.
A HA!!
we stayed the night in OK. across the street from our motel was a motel
of consisting of a circle of giant teepees. it was like the twilight
zone.
Come on. All people on the coasts know is that Oklahoma corn is as high as an
elephant's eye and all its denizens are white, sing well, and pull out shotguns
when anyone is messed with. Also, they figure it's a pretty safe bet that the
Oklahoma cowmen who can dance are gay.

Caliban
"Sing it, Andrew... Dum dee-de dum dum dum dum da... "
Justice Cow
2003-12-02 03:24:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Caliban
Post by Justice Cow
Post by CatwhispererALH
I agree. I live in Oklahoma, and everyone "on the coasts" thinks we all
live
in
teepees and ride horses to work. Ergo, we would be stupid, or perhaps even
totally in the dark about homosexuality.
A HA!!
we stayed the night in OK. across the street from our motel was a motel
of consisting of a circle of giant teepees. it was like the twilight
zone.
Come on. All people on the coasts know is that Oklahoma corn is as high as an
elephant's eye and all its denizens are white, sing well, and pull out shotguns
when anyone is messed with. Also, they figure it's a pretty safe bet that the
Oklahoma cowmen who can dance are gay.
Caliban
"Sing it, Andrew... Dum dee-de dum dum dum dum da... "
wasn't there a book about a bunch of lesbian babes with big thumbs and
gay cowboys dancing under the moon in oklahoma?
Mojo
2003-12-02 03:55:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Justice Cow
Post by Caliban
Post by Justice Cow
Post by CatwhispererALH
I agree. I live in Oklahoma, and everyone "on the coasts" thinks we all
live
in
teepees and ride horses to work. Ergo, we would be stupid, or
perhaps
Post by Justice Cow
Post by Caliban
Post by Justice Cow
Post by CatwhispererALH
even
totally in the dark about homosexuality.
A HA!!
we stayed the night in OK. across the street from our motel was a motel
of consisting of a circle of giant teepees. it was like the twilight
zone.
Come on. All people on the coasts know is that Oklahoma corn is as high as an
elephant's eye and all its denizens are white, sing well, and pull
out
Post by Justice Cow
Post by Caliban
shotguns
when anyone is messed with. Also, they figure it's a pretty safe bet that the
Oklahoma cowmen who can dance are gay.
Caliban
"Sing it, Andrew... Dum dee-de dum dum dum dum da... "
wasn't there a book about a bunch of lesbian babes with big thumbs and
gay cowboys dancing under the moon in oklahoma?
"Even Cowgirls Get The Blues"?
Justice Cow
2003-12-02 04:04:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by CatwhispererALH
Post by Justice Cow
Post by Caliban
Post by Justice Cow
Post by CatwhispererALH
I agree. I live in Oklahoma, and everyone "on the coasts" thinks
we all
Post by Justice Cow
Post by Caliban
Post by Justice Cow
Post by CatwhispererALH
live
in
teepees and ride horses to work. Ergo, we would be stupid, or
perhaps
Post by Justice Cow
Post by Caliban
Post by Justice Cow
Post by CatwhispererALH
even
totally in the dark about homosexuality.
A HA!!
we stayed the night in OK. across the street from our motel was a
motel
Post by Justice Cow
Post by Caliban
Post by Justice Cow
of consisting of a circle of giant teepees. it was like the
twilight
Post by Justice Cow
Post by Caliban
Post by Justice Cow
zone.
Come on. All people on the coasts know is that Oklahoma corn is as
high as an
Post by Justice Cow
Post by Caliban
elephant's eye and all its denizens are white, sing well, and pull
out
Post by Justice Cow
Post by Caliban
shotguns
when anyone is messed with. Also, they figure it's a pretty safe bet
that the
Post by Justice Cow
Post by Caliban
Oklahoma cowmen who can dance are gay.
Caliban
"Sing it, Andrew... Dum dee-de dum dum dum dum da... "
wasn't there a book about a bunch of lesbian babes with big thumbs and
gay cowboys dancing under the moon in oklahoma?
"Even Cowgirls Get The Blues"?
thats the one!
Jessica
2003-12-02 04:41:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Justice Cow
Post by Mojo
Post by Justice Cow
wasn't there a book about a bunch of lesbian babes with big thumbs and
gay cowboys dancing under the moon in oklahoma?
"Even Cowgirls Get The Blues"?
thats the one!
I think just one had a big thumb (played by Uma Thurman?) All I remember is
her having two big thumbs, being an expert hitchhiker because of it, hitting
someone, and getting one surgically corrected.

Jessica
Caliban
2003-12-02 04:00:31 UTC
Permalink
sniperoo
Post by Justice Cow
Post by Caliban
Come on. All people on the coasts know is that Oklahoma corn is as high as an
elephant's eye and all its denizens are white, sing well, and pull out shotguns
when anyone is messed with. Also, they figure it's a pretty safe bet that the
Oklahoma cowmen who can dance are gay.
Caliban
"Sing it, Andrew... Dum dee-de dum dum dum dum da... "
wasn't there a book about a bunch of lesbian babes with big thumbs and
gay cowboys dancing under the moon in oklahoma?
Eww, corrupting my Rodgers and Hammerstein virgin mind. ;-)

No idea. :-)
The Horny Goat
2003-12-02 05:11:18 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 00:11:45 GMT, "Caliban"
Post by Caliban
Come on. All people on the coasts know is that Oklahoma corn is as high as an
elephant's eye and all its denizens are white, sing well, and pull out shotguns
when anyone is messed with. Also, they figure it's a pretty safe bet that the
Oklahoma cowmen who can dance are gay.
"One man likes to push a plough, the other likes to chase a cow,
But that's no reason why they cain't be friends. "

Hmmm. Somehow I never thought of Rogers and Hammerstein in those
terms...
Mojo
2003-11-28 23:05:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Burton: "Christa, you did it." Yeah, there ya go, Burton. No proof
whatsoever, and you immediately accuse both remaining Drake women. Both
remaining members of Rupert's alliance. Both of whom you can't wait to
vote off. Yeah, like you haven't had it in for Christa from Day One.
S'matter, she turn you down before puppy dog Michelle latched on to your
leg? Oh wait, that doesn't matter, 'cause you're obviously gay. 31, San
Francisco, single, well-groomed, great with a blow gun and other long,
cylindrical objects...
I read this and I have to ask: If Sandra has done something you
disliked, would you be making a bunch of slams about how she's
Hispanic and she's only good at handling tacos and burritos?
Yeah, probably. If she had done something stupid, I probably would have
slammed her Spanish answer during the RC. I suppose I could have done
several bits where she overheard Jon &/or Burton supposedly saying
things, only to come off as dumbassed or having them blow up in her
face, were I so inclined. I could easily have turned Christa's whole "I
can't prove it, but I was away for thirty seconds so I may have done it
I don't know but I'm reasonably sure I didn't steal the fish!" cryfest
into one long blonde joke. And believe you me, I would have been flayed
alive in certain corners, had I gone that route. Note also that fate
didn't stop me from making several anti-Heidi rants last season.
(Highest I.Q. my ass...)

I'm Hispanic myself, by the way, although it's Chilean, so I'm only good
at handling empanadas and humitas.
Post by Dgates
Or if it were Tijuana, would you be laying into her for being black?
Depends. If she did something that involved asserting her "blackness" I
found particularly offensive, you betcha. I have no problems with that.
I'm an equal-opportunity offender. And, just for the record, I think the
last Survivor I slammed for just that reason was Marquesas Sean (one
lazy, mysognistic s.o.b.).
Post by Dgates
Or do you view being gay as different from being Hispanic or black,
such that you can use it to slam people you don't like?
I would view it differently only in that it may take a few more minutes
to recognize as being evident. But, beyond that, no, I don't view being
gay as different, because I think people are born with a genetic
predisposition towards specific sexual preference.

That being said, once I think you're an asshole or a dumbass, I'm going
to look for whatever I may find and use that against you. Note that my
previous anti-Burton slams focused more on his attacks on Rupert, his
Outcast status, and his egomaniacal behavior.
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Jeff: "Yo, Dan! You step any lighter in those loafers and you'll float
away! Better hold on to the rope for support, ya freak. Jon, _this_ is
your 'Loved One'? Amazing that you're still single. Or, perhaps you
aren't."
... Jon never actually told a lie. He left that up to Twinkletoes.
Both Burton and Jon
prefer "steak", and I'm going to refrain from drawing any parallels
between gay men and their meat preferences until I see the stats.
Next question: what is the one personality trait that could cost your
Survivor to lose this game? Jon's homosexual bed buddy writes
"attitude
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
and mouth", but I swear it looks like he wrote "lying" and erased it.
Jon then hugs Tijuana and Darrah. Probably the first time he's
hugged a woman in years. Jon then races over to hug his soulmate,
Twinkletoes.
Jon: "That was a brilliant performance, sir! Now come, give daddy a
kiss."
Twinkletoes D: "Thank you! Don't mind if I do."
Jon: "Did you like mine?"
Twinkletoes D: "I'll like yours a whole lot better tonight after I've
painted you to look like a snake and greased up your backside with fish
oil."
Jon: "Well now, aren't you in luck? I've been saving up coconut husks
under my secret bush, and I've knitted you a Burton wig and beard. Oh
yeah, mama's gonna get some lovin' tonight!"
Jon: "Here, let's drink all their water and grill a nice, big fish I
caught yesterday."
Twinkletoes D: "Ooo, did you use your spear?"
Jon: "Oh, yeah. I'll spear you, baby."
I'm dying to know: What state are you from? Do you have any gay
friends or acquaintances? Would you be comfortable having one of them
read this?
What state? Is that relevant? Umm, ok, Confusion? Denial? Actually, I
live in California. San Fernando Valley. I've lived in various parts of
this state for my entire life. I was born less than twenty miles from
San Francisco, if that matters. I have lived in Berkeley, in Pasadena,
near Sacramento. While living on the Oakland/Berkeley border for three
years, I had a gay Danish housemate. He was a great guy. He works as a
personal attendant to handicapped people in Berkeley; a really tough,
demanding job. And I wouldn't have any qualms about him reading my
rants. I also got a degree in Illustration from Art Center College of
Design in Pasadena. I had several gay, lesbian, and I believe even a few
non-gay friends and acquaintences there. I think a couple of them were
even...dumbasses. Damn art students. Wouldn't know the real world if it
hit them in the head with a brick.
Post by Dgates
My guess would be that you view homosexuality as a deviant lifestyle
choice; therefore being anti-gay is different than being racist. You
have no gay friends, but maybe once had a gay coworker and, no, you
wouldn't talk to him like this or want him to read your latest rant.
Am I far off?
--
Yes.

mojo
pro-gay marriage
CB
2003-11-28 23:38:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mojo
I'm Hispanic myself, by the way, although it's Chilean, so I'm only good
at handling empanadas and humitas.
Mmm, I could handle empanadas any day.
David Quirk
2003-11-28 23:45:58 UTC
Permalink
we read mojo for rants
not political correctness

p.s. i'm gay and not offended
Dgates
2003-11-29 00:35:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Burton: "Christa, you did it." Yeah, there ya go, Burton. No proof
whatsoever, and you immediately accuse both remaining Drake women.
Both
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
remaining members of Rupert's alliance. Both of whom you can't wait
to
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
vote off. Yeah, like you haven't had it in for Christa from Day One.
S'matter, she turn you down before puppy dog Michelle latched on to
your
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
leg? Oh wait, that doesn't matter, 'cause you're obviously gay. 31,
San
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Francisco, single, well-groomed, great with a blow gun and other
long,
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
cylindrical objects...
I read this and I have to ask: If Sandra has done something you
disliked, would you be making a bunch of slams about how she's
Hispanic and she's only good at handling tacos and burritos?
Yeah, probably. If she had done something stupid, I probably would have
slammed her Spanish answer during the RC. I suppose I could have done
several bits where she overheard Jon &/or Burton supposedly saying
things, only to come off as dumbassed or having them blow up in her
face, were I so inclined.
That's not exactly my question. Your anger against Burton and Jon,
which presumably had nothing to do with whether or not they're gay,
we're all expressed with all sorts of imagery about them being gay --
like the specifics of Burton being practiced with long, cylidrical
things.

The analogous slam on Sandra -- say, if you were insulting her for
being a peeping tom -- would be "Is she so used to watching Senor
Lopez on her Spanish soap operas that she thinks it's okay to spy on
people? I've got news for you, my little brown girl with your peasant
accent, we don't do things that way in this country!"

I didn't ask if you would be willing to insult Sandra. I asked if
you'd be as comfortable throwing in a bunch of non-sequitir
anti-Hispanic jabs the same way you throw in anti-gay jabs when you're
mad at these other guys.
Post by Mojo
I could easily have turned Christa's whole "I
can't prove it, but I was away for thirty seconds so I may have done it
I don't know but I'm reasonably sure I didn't steal the fish!" cryfest
into one long blonde joke.
That is true. If you were down on Christa and expressed it with a
bunch of blonde jokes, that would have been more like what I was
describing.
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
Or if it were Tijuana, would you be laying into her for being black?
Depends. If she did something that involved asserting her "blackness" I
found particularly offensive, you betcha.
Did Jon or Burton do something offensive asserting their "gayness?"
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
Or do you view being gay as different from being Hispanic or black,
such that you can use it to slam people you don't like?
I would view it differently only in that it may take a few more minutes
to recognize as being evident. But, beyond that, no, I don't view being
gay as different, because I think people are born with a genetic
predisposition towards specific sexual preference.
So, why all the "light in the loafers" stuff when you're really mad at
Jon for lying?
Post by Mojo
That being said, once I think you're an asshole or a dumbass, I'm going
to look for whatever I may find and use that against you. Note that my
previous anti-Burton slams focused more on his attacks on Rupert, his
Outcast status, and his egomaniacal behavior.
I know, and you'll find my posts from that time saying that you're
very accessible, even if I don't agree 100%.
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Jeff: "Yo, Dan! You step any lighter in those loafers and you'll
float
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
away! Better hold on to the rope for support, ya freak. Jon, _this_
is
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
your 'Loved One'? Amazing that you're still single. Or, perhaps you
aren't."
... Jon never actually told a lie. He left that up to Twinkletoes.
Both Burton and Jon
prefer "steak", and I'm going to refrain from drawing any parallels
between gay men and their meat preferences until I see the stats.
Next question: what is the one personality trait that could cost your
Survivor to lose this game? Jon's homosexual bed buddy writes
"attitude
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
and mouth", but I swear it looks like he wrote "lying" and erased it.
Jon then hugs Tijuana and Darrah. Probably the first time he's
hugged a woman in years. Jon then races over to hug his soulmate,
Twinkletoes.
Jon: "That was a brilliant performance, sir! Now come, give daddy a
kiss."
Twinkletoes D: "Thank you! Don't mind if I do."
Jon: "Did you like mine?"
Twinkletoes D: "I'll like yours a whole lot better tonight after I've
painted you to look like a snake and greased up your backside with
fish
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
oil."
Jon: "Well now, aren't you in luck? I've been saving up coconut husks
under my secret bush, and I've knitted you a Burton wig and beard. Oh
yeah, mama's gonna get some lovin' tonight!"
Jon: "Here, let's drink all their water and grill a nice, big fish I
caught yesterday."
Twinkletoes D: "Ooo, did you use your spear?"
Jon: "Oh, yeah. I'll spear you, baby."
I'm dying to know: What state are you from? Do you have any gay
friends or acquaintances? Would you be comfortable having one of them
read this?
What state? Is that relevant? Umm, ok, Confusion? Denial? Actually, I
live in California. San Fernando Valley.
Someone else asked me why I asked that question too. I'm afraid that
my question gave away my pre-conceived notions.

Based on how you wrote this week's rant, I figured that your answer
would be that you lived in a town where there is practically nothing
but white heteros. Perhaps a small town.
Post by Mojo
I had a gay Danish housemate. He was a great guy...
And I wouldn't have any qualms about him reading my
rants.
If you say so. If you do decide to send him this latest rant to get
his opinion on it, I'd be curious about what he says.

Although even more improbably, I'd love to hear about you grabbing the
attention of a gay friend or two in person and asking if you could
read them something out loud. Tell them you want their feedback.
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
My guess would be that you view homosexuality as a deviant lifestyle
choice; therefore being anti-gay is different than being racist. You
have no gay friends, but maybe once had a gay coworker and, no, you
wouldn't talk to him like this or want him to read your latest rant.
Am I far off?
Yes.
mojo
pro-gay marriage
I agree. I am far off on the type of environment you live in and
where you stand on whether gay people have just deliberately chosen a
deviant lifestyle.

I still am curious about the clarifications I made earlier.
Specifically, if Tijuana did something cruel that had nothing to do
with whether or not she's black, would you be laying into her with a
bunch of comments about the specifics of what it means to be black?

Analoguous to all the loving detail you put into your descriptions of
Jon's and Burton's homosexuality, would you start talking about
Tijuana's kinky hair, or how she doesn't need to be laying around
getting a tan, or how she blew out her brains listening to Snoop Doggy
Dogg and defending OJ Simpson?
--
***@spamfreelinkline.com
Mojo
2003-11-29 01:15:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Burton: "Christa, you did it." Yeah, there ya go, Burton. No proof
whatsoever, and you immediately accuse both remaining Drake women.
Both
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
remaining members of Rupert's alliance. Both of whom you can't wait
to
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
vote off. Yeah, like you haven't had it in for Christa from Day One.
S'matter, she turn you down before puppy dog Michelle latched on to
your
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
leg? Oh wait, that doesn't matter, 'cause you're obviously gay. 31,
San
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Francisco, single, well-groomed, great with a blow gun and other
long,
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
cylindrical objects...
I read this and I have to ask: If Sandra has done something you
disliked, would you be making a bunch of slams about how she's
Hispanic and she's only good at handling tacos and burritos?
Yeah, probably. If she had done something stupid, I probably would have
slammed her Spanish answer during the RC. I suppose I could have done
several bits where she overheard Jon &/or Burton supposedly saying
things, only to come off as dumbassed or having them blow up in her
face, were I so inclined.
That's not exactly my question. Your anger against Burton and Jon,
which presumably had nothing to do with whether or not they're gay,
we're all expressed with all sorts of imagery about them being gay --
like the specifics of Burton being practiced with long, cylidrical
things.
The analogous slam on Sandra -- say, if you were insulting her for
being a peeping tom -- would be "Is she so used to watching Senor
Lopez on her Spanish soap operas that she thinks it's okay to spy on
people? I've got news for you, my little brown girl with your peasant
accent, we don't do things that way in this country!"
I didn't ask if you would be willing to insult Sandra. I asked if
you'd be as comfortable throwing in a bunch of non-sequitir
anti-Hispanic jabs the same way you throw in anti-gay jabs when you're
mad at these other guys.
Yes. I am an equal-opportunity offender. I am offensive to everyone.
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
I could easily have turned Christa's whole "I
can't prove it, but I was away for thirty seconds so I may have done it
I don't know but I'm reasonably sure I didn't steal the fish!" cryfest
into one long blonde joke.
That is true. If you were down on Christa and expressed it with a
bunch of blonde jokes, that would have been more like what I was
describing.
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
Or if it were Tijuana, would you be laying into her for being black?
Depends. If she did something that involved asserting her "blackness" I
found particularly offensive, you betcha.
Did Jon or Burton do something offensive asserting their "gayness?"
Nope. Doesn't mean I won't use it when attacking them, though.
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
Or do you view being gay as different from being Hispanic or black,
such that you can use it to slam people you don't like?
I would view it differently only in that it may take a few more minutes
to recognize as being evident. But, beyond that, no, I don't view being
gay as different, because I think people are born with a genetic
predisposition towards specific sexual preference.
So, why all the "light in the loafers" stuff when you're really mad at
Jon for lying?
Actually, I think my "loafers" comments were directed more towards Dan.
(I mean, come on, when he came out from around that rock, skipping and
flashing his stupid hand signals, tell me you didn't think "flamer".)

It's just not as much fun for me to simply say "ooo, you're such a
liar...ooooo, I really hate your lying..." SoI latched on to the gay
thing and used that angle to attack Jon. So what. I could have made dumb
blonde jokes about him too, ya know.
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
That being said, once I think you're an asshole or a dumbass, I'm going
to look for whatever I may find and use that against you. Note that my
previous anti-Burton slams focused more on his attacks on Rupert, his
Outcast status, and his egomaniacal behavior.
I know, and you'll find my posts from that time saying that you're
very accessible, even if I don't agree 100%.
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Jeff: "Yo, Dan! You step any lighter in those loafers and you'll
float
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
away! Better hold on to the rope for support, ya freak. Jon, _this_
is
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
your 'Loved One'? Amazing that you're still single. Or, perhaps you
aren't."
... Jon never actually told a lie. He left that up to Twinkletoes.
Both Burton and Jon
prefer "steak", and I'm going to refrain from drawing any
parallels
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
between gay men and their meat preferences until I see the stats.
Next question: what is the one personality trait that could cost your
Survivor to lose this game? Jon's homosexual bed buddy writes
"attitude
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
and mouth", but I swear it looks like he wrote "lying" and erased it.
Jon then hugs Tijuana and Darrah. Probably the first time he's
hugged a woman in years. Jon then races over to hug his soulmate,
Twinkletoes.
Jon: "That was a brilliant performance, sir! Now come, give daddy a
kiss."
Twinkletoes D: "Thank you! Don't mind if I do."
Jon: "Did you like mine?"
Twinkletoes D: "I'll like yours a whole lot better tonight after I've
painted you to look like a snake and greased up your backside with
fish
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
oil."
Jon: "Well now, aren't you in luck? I've been saving up coconut husks
under my secret bush, and I've knitted you a Burton wig and beard. Oh
yeah, mama's gonna get some lovin' tonight!"
Jon: "Here, let's drink all their water and grill a nice, big fish I
caught yesterday."
Twinkletoes D: "Ooo, did you use your spear?"
Jon: "Oh, yeah. I'll spear you, baby."
I'm dying to know: What state are you from? Do you have any gay
friends or acquaintances? Would you be comfortable having one of them
read this?
What state? Is that relevant? Umm, ok, Confusion? Denial? Actually, I
live in California. San Fernando Valley.
Someone else asked me why I asked that question too. I'm afraid that
my question gave away my pre-conceived notions.
Based on how you wrote this week's rant, I figured that your answer
would be that you lived in a town where there is practically nothing
but white heteros. Perhaps a small town.
Nope. There's something like 2.3 million residents in the Valley. My
high school graduating class had over 900 students. The only time I've
lived in a really small town (under 50,000 population) was the year I
spent living near Sacramento.
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
I had a gay Danish housemate. He was a great guy...
And I wouldn't have any qualms about him reading my
rants.
If you say so. If you do decide to send him this latest rant to get
his opinion on it, I'd be curious about what he says.
Well, I lost touch with him after 1995, and I don't even know if he has
a computer or internet access. But if I did have his email address, oh
you betcha I'd send him my rants.
Post by Dgates
Although even more improbably, I'd love to hear about you grabbing the
attention of a gay friend or two in person and asking if you could
read them something out loud. Tell them you want their feedback.
Good lord, who do you think I am? Jay Leno?
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
My guess would be that you view homosexuality as a deviant
lifestyle
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
choice; therefore being anti-gay is different than being racist.
You
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
have no gay friends, but maybe once had a gay coworker and, no, you
wouldn't talk to him like this or want him to read your latest rant.
Am I far off?
Yes.
mojo
pro-gay marriage
I agree. I am far off on the type of environment you live in and
where you stand on whether gay people have just deliberately chosen a
deviant lifestyle.
I still am curious about the clarifications I made earlier.
Specifically, if Tijuana did something cruel that had nothing to do
with whether or not she's black, would you be laying into her with a
bunch of comments about the specifics of what it means to be black?
Depends on what she did, and how mad it made me.
Post by Dgates
Analoguous to all the loving detail you put into your descriptions of
Jon's and Burton's homosexuality, would you start talking about
Tijuana's kinky hair, or how she doesn't need to be laying around
getting a tan, or how she blew out her brains listening to Snoop Doggy
Dogg and defending OJ Simpson?
--
I'm sorry, but I never looked high enough to see whether Tijuana's hair
was kinky or not. ;) And most of the Af-Ams I know are convinced OJ did
it.
Dgates
2003-11-29 03:55:20 UTC
Permalink
Well, look, Mojo! If you're going to be more mature and eloquent and
thoughtful in than me in your replies, then I may have to stop
shooting my mouth off! :-o
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
The analogous slam on Sandra -- say, if you were insulting her for
being a peeping tom -- would be "Is she so used to watching Senor
Lopez on her Spanish soap operas that she thinks it's okay to spy on
people? I've got news for you, my little brown girl with your peasant
accent, we don't do things that way in this country!"
I didn't ask if you would be willing to insult Sandra. I asked if
you'd be as comfortable throwing in a bunch of non-sequitir
anti-Hispanic jabs the same way you throw in anti-gay jabs when you're
mad at these other guys.
Yes. I am an equal-opportunity offender. I am offensive to everyone.
Post by Dgates
So, why all the "light in the loafers" stuff when you're really mad at
Jon for lying?
Actually, I think my "loafers" comments were directed more towards Dan.
(I mean, come on, when he came out from around that rock, skipping and
flashing his stupid hand signals, tell me you didn't think "flamer".)
It's funny. Maybe because I was all geared up waiting for the big
lie, or because I was cracking up that he does the same hand signals
as Jon, but I didn't notice.

Mind you, if I had noticed, I would have probably posted about it, but
I would have tried to pretend I was being neutral and analytical
rather than just laughing at him for being super queeny. :-)
Post by Mojo
It's just not as much fun for me to simply say "ooo, you're such a
liar...ooooo, I really hate your lying..."
Nice example. And funny. :-)
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
... I'd love to hear about you grabbing the
attention of a gay friend or two in person and asking if you could
read them something out loud. Tell them you want their feedback.
Good lord, who do you think I am? Jay Leno?
So, since you've been so graceful about my attacks and accusations, I
should point out that, even as I was searching and snipping to make my
Post by Mojo
Thunder D: "She died, dude."
Jon: "Dude?"
Thunder D: "Dude."
Jon: "Dude."
Also, I am very happy that you recap the full voting comments. If
anyone is wary of reading through a 300-line post, they should know
that 40 or 50 of the lines are solid information that they couldn't
have gotten by watching the show.

:-)

--
***@spamfreelinkline.com
Mojo
2003-11-29 04:35:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dgates
Well, look, Mojo! If you're going to be more mature and eloquent and
thoughtful in than me in your replies, then I may have to stop
shooting my mouth off! :-o
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
The analogous slam on Sandra -- say, if you were insulting her for
being a peeping tom -- would be "Is she so used to watching Senor
Lopez on her Spanish soap operas that she thinks it's okay to spy on
people? I've got news for you, my little brown girl with your peasant
accent, we don't do things that way in this country!"
I didn't ask if you would be willing to insult Sandra. I asked if
you'd be as comfortable throwing in a bunch of non-sequitir
anti-Hispanic jabs the same way you throw in anti-gay jabs when you're
mad at these other guys.
Yes. I am an equal-opportunity offender. I am offensive to everyone.
Post by Dgates
So, why all the "light in the loafers" stuff when you're really mad at
Jon for lying?
Actually, I think my "loafers" comments were directed more towards Dan.
(I mean, come on, when he came out from around that rock, skipping and
flashing his stupid hand signals, tell me you didn't think "flamer".)
It's funny. Maybe because I was all geared up waiting for the big
lie, or because I was cracking up that he does the same hand signals
as Jon, but I didn't notice.
Mind you, if I had noticed, I would have probably posted about it, but
I would have tried to pretend I was being neutral and analytical
rather than just laughing at him for being super queeny. :-)
Post by Mojo
It's just not as much fun for me to simply say "ooo, you're such a
liar...ooooo, I really hate your lying..."
Nice example. And funny. :-)
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
... I'd love to hear about you grabbing the
attention of a gay friend or two in person and asking if you could
read them something out loud. Tell them you want their feedback.
Good lord, who do you think I am? Jay Leno?
So, since you've been so graceful about my attacks and accusations, I
should point out that, even as I was searching and snipping to make my
Post by Mojo
Thunder D: "She died, dude."
Jon: "Dude?"
Thunder D: "Dude."
Jon: "Dude."
Also, I am very happy that you recap the full voting comments. If
anyone is wary of reading through a 300-line post, they should know
that 40 or 50 of the lines are solid information that they couldn't
have gotten by watching the show.
:-)
--
Thank you. That last comment made my day. I always try and stick just a
little analysis in, even though I'm sure others have touched upon most
of the salient points in their posts. And I mainly put in the full
voting comments because I find them to be very telling, showing us what
these people are really thinking. That, and I'm eternally pissed off at
MB for not including them in the show.

mojo
CatwhispererALH
2003-11-30 09:09:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dgates
Well, look, Mojo! If you're going to be more mature and eloquent and
thoughtful in than me in your replies, then I may have to stop
shooting my mouth off! :-o
OK, so I have definitely worn out my welcome here, but it was a bad bad day and
I'm enjoying the posts. And I must say that that one was one of my faves all
day! Go team you! I have never seen anyone eat crow "here". That was worth a
cookie. Or the dessert of your choice.

:-)

kat


PS!
Also, I am very happy that you recap the full voting comments. If
Post by Dgates
anyone is wary of reading through a 300-line post, they should know
that 40 or 50 of the lines are solid information that they couldn't
have gotten by watching the show.
I am too --- where does that info come from? It was dandy.
Mojo
2003-11-30 09:25:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by CatwhispererALH
Post by Dgates
Well, look, Mojo! If you're going to be more mature and eloquent and
thoughtful in than me in your replies, then I may have to stop
shooting my mouth off! :-o
OK, so I have definitely worn out my welcome here, but it was a bad bad day and
I'm enjoying the posts. And I must say that that one was one of my faves all
day! Go team you! I have never seen anyone eat crow "here". That was worth a
cookie. Or the dessert of your choice.
:-)
kat
PS!
Also, I am very happy that you recap the full voting comments. If
Post by Dgates
anyone is wary of reading through a 300-line post, they should know
that 40 or 50 of the lines are solid information that they couldn't
have gotten by watching the show.
I am too --- where does that info come from? It was dandy.
http://pub207.ezboard.com/fsurvivorsucksfrm2
Tiger
2003-11-29 20:45:45 UTC
Permalink
Jesus, Mojo does what SNL does
and it's rant.....don't read it if you do not see the humor in it and are
stuck in a PC world
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Burton: "Christa, you did it." Yeah, there ya go, Burton. No proof
whatsoever, and you immediately accuse both remaining Drake women.
Both
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
remaining members of Rupert's alliance. Both of whom you can't
wait
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
to
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
vote off. Yeah, like you haven't had it in for Christa from Day
One.
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
S'matter, she turn you down before puppy dog Michelle latched on
to
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
your
Post by Dgates
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leg? Oh wait, that doesn't matter, 'cause you're obviously gay.
31,
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
San
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Francisco, single, well-groomed, great with a blow gun and other
long,
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
cylindrical objects...
I read this and I have to ask: If Sandra has done something you
disliked, would you be making a bunch of slams about how she's
Hispanic and she's only good at handling tacos and burritos?
Yeah, probably. If she had done something stupid, I probably would
have
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
slammed her Spanish answer during the RC. I suppose I could have done
several bits where she overheard Jon &/or Burton supposedly saying
things, only to come off as dumbassed or having them blow up in her
face, were I so inclined.
That's not exactly my question. Your anger against Burton and Jon,
which presumably had nothing to do with whether or not they're gay,
we're all expressed with all sorts of imagery about them being gay --
like the specifics of Burton being practiced with long, cylidrical
things.
The analogous slam on Sandra -- say, if you were insulting her for
being a peeping tom -- would be "Is she so used to watching Senor
Lopez on her Spanish soap operas that she thinks it's okay to spy on
people? I've got news for you, my little brown girl with your peasant
accent, we don't do things that way in this country!"
I didn't ask if you would be willing to insult Sandra. I asked if
you'd be as comfortable throwing in a bunch of non-sequitir
anti-Hispanic jabs the same way you throw in anti-gay jabs when you're
mad at these other guys.
Yes. I am an equal-opportunity offender. I am offensive to everyone.
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
I could easily have turned Christa's whole "I
can't prove it, but I was away for thirty seconds so I may have done
it
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
I don't know but I'm reasonably sure I didn't steal the fish!"
cryfest
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
into one long blonde joke.
That is true. If you were down on Christa and expressed it with a
bunch of blonde jokes, that would have been more like what I was
describing.
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
Or if it were Tijuana, would you be laying into her for being
black?
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Depends. If she did something that involved asserting her "blackness"
I
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
found particularly offensive, you betcha.
Did Jon or Burton do something offensive asserting their "gayness?"
Nope. Doesn't mean I won't use it when attacking them, though.
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
Or do you view being gay as different from being Hispanic or black,
such that you can use it to slam people you don't like?
I would view it differently only in that it may take a few more
minutes
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
to recognize as being evident. But, beyond that, no, I don't view
being
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
gay as different, because I think people are born with a genetic
predisposition towards specific sexual preference.
So, why all the "light in the loafers" stuff when you're really mad at
Jon for lying?
Actually, I think my "loafers" comments were directed more towards Dan.
(I mean, come on, when he came out from around that rock, skipping and
flashing his stupid hand signals, tell me you didn't think "flamer".)
It's just not as much fun for me to simply say "ooo, you're such a
liar...ooooo, I really hate your lying..." SoI latched on to the gay
thing and used that angle to attack Jon. So what. I could have made dumb
blonde jokes about him too, ya know.
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
That being said, once I think you're an asshole or a dumbass, I'm
going
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
to look for whatever I may find and use that against you. Note that
my
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
previous anti-Burton slams focused more on his attacks on Rupert, his
Outcast status, and his egomaniacal behavior.
I know, and you'll find my posts from that time saying that you're
very accessible, even if I don't agree 100%.
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Jeff: "Yo, Dan! You step any lighter in those loafers and you'll
float
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
away! Better hold on to the rope for support, ya freak. Jon,
_this_
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
is
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
your 'Loved One'? Amazing that you're still single. Or, perhaps
you
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
aren't."
... Jon never actually told a lie. He left that up to Twinkletoes.
Both Burton and Jon
prefer "steak", and I'm going to refrain from drawing any
parallels
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
between gay men and their meat preferences until I see the stats.
Next question: what is the one personality trait that could cost
your
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Survivor to lose this game? Jon's homosexual bed buddy writes
"attitude
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
and mouth", but I swear it looks like he wrote "lying" and erased
it.
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Jon then hugs Tijuana and Darrah. Probably the first time he's
hugged a woman in years. Jon then races over to hug his soulmate,
Twinkletoes.
Jon: "That was a brilliant performance, sir! Now come, give daddy
a
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
kiss."
Twinkletoes D: "Thank you! Don't mind if I do."
Jon: "Did you like mine?"
Twinkletoes D: "I'll like yours a whole lot better tonight after
I've
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
painted you to look like a snake and greased up your backside with
fish
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
oil."
Jon: "Well now, aren't you in luck? I've been saving up coconut
husks
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
under my secret bush, and I've knitted you a Burton wig and beard.
Oh
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
yeah, mama's gonna get some lovin' tonight!"
Jon: "Here, let's drink all their water and grill a nice, big fish
I
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
caught yesterday."
Twinkletoes D: "Ooo, did you use your spear?"
Jon: "Oh, yeah. I'll spear you, baby."
I'm dying to know: What state are you from? Do you have any gay
friends or acquaintances? Would you be comfortable having one of
them
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
read this?
What state? Is that relevant? Umm, ok, Confusion? Denial? Actually, I
live in California. San Fernando Valley.
Someone else asked me why I asked that question too. I'm afraid that
my question gave away my pre-conceived notions.
Based on how you wrote this week's rant, I figured that your answer
would be that you lived in a town where there is practically nothing
but white heteros. Perhaps a small town.
Nope. There's something like 2.3 million residents in the Valley. My
high school graduating class had over 900 students. The only time I've
lived in a really small town (under 50,000 population) was the year I
spent living near Sacramento.
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
I had a gay Danish housemate. He was a great guy...
And I wouldn't have any qualms about him reading my
rants.
If you say so. If you do decide to send him this latest rant to get
his opinion on it, I'd be curious about what he says.
Well, I lost touch with him after 1995, and I don't even know if he has
a computer or internet access. But if I did have his email address, oh
you betcha I'd send him my rants.
Post by Dgates
Although even more improbably, I'd love to hear about you grabbing the
attention of a gay friend or two in person and asking if you could
read them something out loud. Tell them you want their feedback.
Good lord, who do you think I am? Jay Leno?
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
My guess would be that you view homosexuality as a deviant
lifestyle
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
choice; therefore being anti-gay is different than being racist.
You
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
have no gay friends, but maybe once had a gay coworker and, no, you
wouldn't talk to him like this or want him to read your latest
rant.
Post by Dgates
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
Am I far off?
Yes.
mojo
pro-gay marriage
I agree. I am far off on the type of environment you live in and
where you stand on whether gay people have just deliberately chosen a
deviant lifestyle.
I still am curious about the clarifications I made earlier.
Specifically, if Tijuana did something cruel that had nothing to do
with whether or not she's black, would you be laying into her with a
bunch of comments about the specifics of what it means to be black?
Depends on what she did, and how mad it made me.
Post by Dgates
Analoguous to all the loving detail you put into your descriptions of
Jon's and Burton's homosexuality, would you start talking about
Tijuana's kinky hair, or how she doesn't need to be laying around
getting a tan, or how she blew out her brains listening to Snoop Doggy
Dogg and defending OJ Simpson?
--
I'm sorry, but I never looked high enough to see whether Tijuana's hair
was kinky or not. ;) And most of the Af-Ams I know are convinced OJ did
it.
CatwhispererALH
2003-11-30 09:03:36 UTC
Permalink
Subject: Re: "Survivor: Pearl Islands" episode 11 rant
Based on how you wrote this week's rant, I figured that your answer
would be that you lived in a town where there is practically nothing
but white heteros. Perhaps a small town.
*OUCH*! Obviously political correctness does not extend to people in small
towns, does it Mr.[or Ms. or whatever] All - Inclusive? I bet you have made
some comments about trailers, and the people who live in them, eh? Well, my
Great Grandmother lived in a town so small she had to go to the next town over
(which was so small it wasn't even on any map!! Hee) to get her mail. She lived
in a trailer, motor home, whatever. She was also the classiest lady I ever
knew.

This is the thing with the annoying Politically Correct movement. No - one can
just write a funny rant (and are you so dense as to not read the irony, the
satire in that rant?) anymore, they get slammed and told they need to go for
sensitivity training. Bad dog!

Ugh. If I can put up with you slamming small towns and more than likely caling
someone "retarded" (which my 2nd cousin actually is, thank you), then you too
can be a big kid and play nicely with others. We all know it's not nice to be
mean to gay people. It's not nice to be mean to people in general. But hi, you
are on Usenet! I spent 30 minutes earlier slamming my brother on a message
board regarding his (IMHO) dumb ass political beliefs (he thinks Cuba is a
great country, that everyone there gets a free college education and health
care. He's wicked stupid!) But then afterwards, we spent 30 minutes talking
about his real life. The fact that he has to move again. Hard stuff. Usenet
isn't real life. It's strangers talking about "stuff".

And I guess that would be my rant for the day :-)

kat
Francois
2003-11-30 16:58:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by CatwhispererALH
Ugh. If I can put up with you slamming small towns and more than likely caling
someone "retarded" (which my 2nd cousin actually is, thank you), then you too
can be a big kid and play nicely with others. We all know it's not nice to be
mean to gay people. It's not nice to be mean to people in general. But hi, you
are on Usenet! I spent 30 minutes earlier slamming my brother on a message
board regarding his (IMHO) dumb ass political beliefs (he thinks Cuba is a
great country, that everyone there gets a free college education and health
care. He's wicked stupid!)
Does non-PC humor mean we can make fun of people who use "wicked" as an
intensifier?

(You're from New England, right?) :-)



Francois
Mojo
2003-11-30 19:47:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by CatwhispererALH
Post by CatwhispererALH
Ugh. If I can put up with you slamming small towns and more than
likely
Post by CatwhispererALH
caling
Post by CatwhispererALH
someone "retarded" (which my 2nd cousin actually is, thank you),
then you
Post by CatwhispererALH
too
Post by CatwhispererALH
can be a big kid and play nicely with others. We all know it's not
nice to
Post by CatwhispererALH
be
Post by CatwhispererALH
mean to gay people. It's not nice to be mean to people in general.
But hi,
Post by CatwhispererALH
you
Post by CatwhispererALH
are on Usenet! I spent 30 minutes earlier slamming my brother on a message
board regarding his (IMHO) dumb ass political beliefs (he thinks Cuba is a
great country, that everyone there gets a free college education and
health
Post by CatwhispererALH
care. He's wicked stupid!)
Does non-PC humor mean we can make fun of people who use "wicked" as an
intensifier?
(You're from New England, right?) :-)
Totally. Bitchin', dude.
Douglas Berry
2003-11-29 08:57:31 UTC
Permalink
Lo, many moons past, on Fri, 28 Nov 2003 23:05:56 GMT, a stranger
called by some "Mojo" <***@home.com> came forth and told this
tale in alt.tv.survivor
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
I'm dying to know: What state are you from? Do you have any gay
friends or acquaintances? Would you be comfortable having one of them
read this?
What state? Is that relevant? Umm, ok, Confusion? Denial? Actually, I
live in California. San Fernando Valley. I've lived in various parts of
this state for my entire life. I was born less than twenty miles from
San Francisco, if that matters. I have lived in Berkeley, in Pasadena,
near Sacramento. While living on the Oakland/Berkeley border for three
years, I had a gay Danish housemate. He was a great guy. He works as a
personal attendant to handicapped people in Berkeley; a really tough,
demanding job. And I wouldn't have any qualms about him reading my
rants. I also got a degree in Illustration from Art Center College of
Design in Pasadena. I had several gay, lesbian, and I believe even a few
non-gay friends and acquaintences there. I think a couple of them were
even...dumbasses. Damn art students. Wouldn't know the real world if it
hit them in the head with a brick.
for the record, as a member of the bi-quere nation, I thought Mojo was
farking hilarious this week.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
Dgates
2003-11-29 17:26:46 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 08:57:31 GMT, Douglas Berry
Post by Douglas Berry
Lo, many moons past, on Fri, 28 Nov 2003 23:05:56 GMT, a stranger
tale in alt.tv.survivor
Post by Mojo
Post by Dgates
I'm dying to know: What state are you from? Do you have any gay
friends or acquaintances? Would you be comfortable having one of them
read this?
What state? Is that relevant? Umm, ok, Confusion? Denial? Actually, I
live in California. San Fernando Valley. I've lived in various parts of
this state for my entire life. I was born less than twenty miles from
San Francisco, if that matters. I have lived in Berkeley, in Pasadena,
near Sacramento. While living on the Oakland/Berkeley border for three
years, I had a gay Danish housemate. He was a great guy. He works as a
personal attendant to handicapped people in Berkeley; a really tough,
demanding job. And I wouldn't have any qualms about him reading my
rants. I also got a degree in Illustration from Art Center College of
Design in Pasadena. I had several gay, lesbian, and I believe even a few
non-gay friends and acquaintences there. I think a couple of them were
even...dumbasses. Damn art students. Wouldn't know the real world if it
hit them in the head with a brick.
for the record, as a member of the bi-quere nation, I thought Mojo was
farking hilarious this week.
Get outta here! Doug??

Not to throw too many of my pre-conceived notions around, but...

Aren't you the guy that wrote that super-macho rant about how you and
your buddies suffered in the rain for much longer than Osten and your
only reward was a 3" nametag that said "Ranger?"

:-o

You're the third bi-quere guy to chime in and say Mojo was no problem!
I debated the potential funniness of just replying "You fags gotta
shut up and let me come to your rescue!" but decided it would get
misquoted and wouldn't end up funny at all! :-)

--
***@spamfreelinkline.com
Nathan Sanders
2003-11-29 17:58:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dgates
You're the third bi-quere guy to chime in and say Mojo was no problem!
Make me the fourth. =)

Burton oozes gay stereotypes (love the whiff of Damon/Affleck we get
from him bringing his mom). And Jon's buddy. Good gawd, I've seen
butcher drag queens.
Post by Dgates
I debated the potential funniness of just replying "You fags gotta
shut up and let me come to your rescue!" but decided it would get
misquoted and wouldn't end up funny at all! :-)
Heh.

That's one of the problems with stereotype humor. It's sometimes
difficult (as with your perception of Mojo's rant) to tell the
difference between good-natured humor/satire and mean-spirited (or at
least, wrong-headed) discrimination.

Nathan
--
To contact me, replace verizon.net with aol.com
Caliban
2003-11-29 18:53:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nathan Sanders
Post by Dgates
You're the third bi-quere guy to chime in and say Mojo was no problem!
Maybe because it's empowering to de-power the comments, especially when there's
a block of "like people" to add weight to the movement.

Sure sounded to me like Francois had a problem with Mojo's comments. ;-)
Post by Nathan Sanders
Make me the fourth. =)
Group dynamics. A veritable petri dish of sociological studies right here. ;-)
Post by Nathan Sanders
Burton oozes gay stereotypes (love the whiff of Damon/Affleck we get
from him bringing his mom). And Jon's buddy. Good gawd, I've seen
butcher drag queens.
Post by Dgates
I debated the potential funniness of just replying "You fags gotta
shut up and let me come to your rescue!" but decided it would get
misquoted and wouldn't end up funny at all! :-)
Heh.
That's one of the problems with stereotype humor. It's sometimes
difficult (as with your perception of Mojo's rant) to tell the
difference between good-natured humor/satire and mean-spirited (or at
least, wrong-headed) discrimination.
Just my opinion, but sometimes the effect of statements like those in Mojo's
rant has nothing to do with (obvious to others) intent (satire) but everything
to do with the forum where it appears.

I think in certain other fora, Mojo's statements in this rant would be
celebrated by, for one, gay bashers. The bashers wouldn't "get" the satire. So
my response, for one, would be different.

Likewise, a non-regular poster here who spews something about, say, how faggy
Nathan (ooup; I isolated one of the group. uh oh. Fear sets in. Dunno if it's my
fear or N's, though ;-)) said this or that could easily pick up momentum if
everyone, thinking he's joking, joins in. All in jest. Until the place becomes a
bona fide haven for gay bashers and is no more the bastion of open-mindedness
;-) it is now.

At some point in such a discussion I think a just society will point out,
somehow, that sexism, racism, homophobia, anti-Semitism, Christian-bashing, etc.
is wrong-o.

It's already been done by Mojo in an explanation here, along with others.

Caliban
"First they came for the Communists but I was not a Communist so I did not speak
out;
Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists but I was not one of
them, so I did not speak out;
Then they came for the Jews but I was not Jewish so I did not speak out.
And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me."

Martin Niemoller, 1892-1984

Rational argument against Conservative selfishness, or liberal fuzzy feel good
nonsense? Talk among yourselves...
Francois
2003-11-29 21:43:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Caliban
Sure sounded to me like Francois had a problem with Mojo's comments. ;-)
Huh?? When I specifically said, quote, "I didn't see Mojo's rant as truly
homophobic", unquote? Why are you always trying to put words into my mouth,
and how could it "sound like I had a problem with it"? I said I didn't find
it FUNNY, but there are plenty of things I do't find funny that others do;
doesn't mean I "have a problem with them". Sheesh. I'm starting to think I
have my own personal troll...


F
Francois
2003-11-29 21:37:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nathan Sanders
And Jon's buddy. Good gawd, I've seen
butcher drag queens.
Heh. I was watching with three other gay guys (unusual for me; usually I
consider this a solitary activity so I don't have to talk during the show)
and ALL of us screamed when whatsisname showed up. Puh-LEEZ. Someone said
"It's Big Gay Al"!

Burton does have kind of a lisp, too, doesn't he--while we're at it? I sure
wouldn't mind having him on the Home Team. :)


F
Mojo
2003-11-29 21:55:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Francois
Post by Nathan Sanders
And Jon's buddy. Good gawd, I've seen
butcher drag queens.
Heh. I was watching with three other gay guys (unusual for me; usually I
consider this a solitary activity so I don't have to talk during the show)
and ALL of us screamed when whatsisname showed up. Puh-LEEZ. Someone said
"It's Big Gay Al"!
YES!! OMFG YES!!! That's it! Thunder D Twinkletoes is really Big Gay
Al!! Oh god, why didn't I see that sooner?

Well, if Dan ever shows up again (reunion show?), he's _definitely_
getting the "Big Gay Al on the Island of Misfit Dumbasses" treatment.
Post by Francois
Burton does have kind of a lisp, too, doesn't he--while we're at it? I sure
wouldn't mind having him on the Home Team. :)
F
Douglas Berry
2003-11-29 19:33:17 UTC
Permalink
Lo, many moons past, on Sat, 29 Nov 2003 09:26:46 -0800, a stranger
called by some Dgates <***@spamfreelinkline.com> came forth and
told this tale in alt.tv.survivor
Post by Dgates
for the record, as a member of the bi-queer nation, I thought Mojo was
farking hilarious this week.
Get outta here! Doug??
Not to throw too many of my pre-conceived notions around, but...
Aren't you the guy that wrote that super-macho rant about how you and
your buddies suffered in the rain for much longer than Osten and your
only reward was a 3" nametag that said "Ranger?"
Damn right! Being bi didn't stop me from being the best damn light
infantry in the world! Rangers Lead the Way!

I didn't even lie to get in. They asked "have you ever had a
homosexual experience?" When I was 17, I had damn few heterosexual
experiences to speak of.

I'm a member of the Alexander Hamilton Post #448, of the American
Legion. Mostly Gay/Bi/Trans veterans.
Post by Dgates
You're the third bi-quere guy to chime in and say Mojo was no problem!
I debated the potential funniness of just replying "You fags gotta
shut up and let me come to your rescue!" but decided it would get
misquoted and wouldn't end up funny at all! :-)
I'm waiting for the Fab Five (from Queer Eye) to get written up as
superheroes somewhere.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
Justice Cow
2003-11-30 04:24:14 UTC
Permalink
I love mojos rants!!!

I read them to my husband!!!

he loves mojos rants too!!!!!!
David Quirk
2003-11-30 11:37:14 UTC
Permalink
cant ur husband read? or is he too busy being spoon fed by u?
JR
2003-11-29 15:50:17 UTC
Permalink
Ok Mojo, in honor of your newly declared ' chileno' heritage, I have
sprinkled this with ' un poquito español' (don't have any empanadas
Post by Mojo
Depends. If she did something that involved asserting her "blackness" I
found particularly offensive, you betcha... the last Survivor I slammed for
just that reason was Marquesas Sean (one lazy, mysognistic s.o.b.).
Alright... Sean WAS lazy and he buddied around with that homophobic,
misogynistic, anti-social, gangster-wannabe Rob Mariano, so there was
plenty to dislike... but WTF did you declare him misogynist(ic)?? I'm
guessing that is the WORD you meant... when was he anti-female?
Examples please!....and anti-Sarah comments do not count... unless
you're delirium/ranting has confused him with the Robfather.

-- JR in DC
Obveeus
2003-11-29 01:18:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dgates
I'm dying to know: What state are you from? Do you have any gay
friends or acquaintances? Would you be comfortable having one of them
read this?
I have to say that the references to Jon and
Burton's sexual orientation were one of the few
parts of the rant I found funny ( I will admit that I
made it less than half way through, though).
Of course, I thought it was funny because I thought
that Mojo was making fun of this newsgroup with
those comments. Now that he has explained his
comments as simply more of his overly negative
spewing, it isn't funny.
Mojo
2003-11-29 01:25:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Obveeus
Post by Dgates
I'm dying to know: What state are you from? Do you have any gay
friends or acquaintances? Would you be comfortable having one of them
read this?
I have to say that the references to Jon and
Burton's sexual orientation were one of the few
parts of the rant I found funny ( I will admit that I
made it less than half way through, though).
Of course, I thought it was funny because I thought
that Mojo was making fun of this newsgroup with
those comments. Now that he has explained his
comments as simply more of his overly negative
spewing, it isn't funny.
Now _that's_ funny.
Obveeus
2003-11-29 01:40:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mojo
Post by Obveeus
Of course, I thought it was funny because I thought
that Mojo was making fun of this newsgroup with
those comments. Now that he has explained his
comments as simply more of his overly negative
spewing, it isn't funny.
Now _that's_ funny.
More funny than your claiming to have put me in
your killfile four days ago for suggesting that
your style was similar to James?
Mojo
2003-11-29 01:49:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Obveeus
Post by Mojo
Post by Obveeus
Of course, I thought it was funny because I thought
that Mojo was making fun of this newsgroup with
those comments. Now that he has explained his
comments as simply more of his overly negative
spewing, it isn't funny.
Now _that's_ funny.
More funny than your claiming to have put me in
your killfile four days ago for suggesting that
your style was similar to James?
I did killfile you. I empty out my Blocked Senders list every month or
so. I'd be happy to add you again, if you wish.
Caliban
2003-11-29 01:56:54 UTC
Permalink
snip
Post by Obveeus
I have to say that the references to Jon and
Burton's sexual orientation were one of the few
parts of the rant I found funny ( I will admit that I
made it less than half way through, though).
Of course, I thought it was funny because I thought
that Mojo was making fun of this newsgroup with
those comments. Now that he has explained his
comments as simply more of his overly negative
spewing, it isn't funny.
Mojo's explanations of the source of his humor did nothing to subtract from my
being entertained again by his rant. His work is so obviously satire. Every time
Mojo calls someone a "dumbass" or other derogatory name, I picture the author
himself, imagining how he would survive the next Tribal Council if he were in
the "dumbass's" shoes.

Most of us realize a person with this kind of talent and smarts knows full well
that his humor is a product of 20/20 hindsight. A mind like this not only knows
he would be flamed mercilessly were he on "Survivor," but he'd say, "Bring it
on! Laugh at me! Ga-wd was I a dumbass! A-whoowhoowhoowhoo.... "

Princely Comic whose imagination blesses us.

Some need to remember to laugh at themselves. ;-)
Mojo
2003-11-29 02:42:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Caliban
snip
Post by Obveeus
I have to say that the references to Jon and
Burton's sexual orientation were one of the few
parts of the rant I found funny ( I will admit that I
made it less than half way through, though).
Of course, I thought it was funny because I thought
that Mojo was making fun of this newsgroup with
those comments. Now that he has explained his
comments as simply more of his overly negative
spewing, it isn't funny.
Mojo's explanations of the source of his humor did nothing to subtract from my
being entertained again by his rant. His work is so obviously satire. Every time
Mojo calls someone a "dumbass" or other derogatory name, I picture the author
himself, imagining how he would survive the next Tribal Council if he were in
the "dumbass's" shoes.
Most of us realize a person with this kind of talent and smarts knows full well
that his humor is a product of 20/20 hindsight. A mind like this not only knows
he would be flamed mercilessly were he on "Survivor," but he'd say, "Bring it
on! Laugh at me! Ga-wd was I a dumbass! A-whoowhoowhoowhoo.... "
Princely Comic whose imagination blesses us.
Some need to remember to laugh at themselves. ;-)
That's exactly correct. I'd be so bad at "Survivor" that even Lill would
have turned on me by Day 3. And, even if the whole tribe was dead set on
voting someone out before TC, I'd use "dumbass this" and "dumbass that"
so often in response to Jeff's question they'd all end up voting my ass
off the island anyway. And I'd be completely cool with that, 'cause I'm
not the type of person who'd win a game of "Survivor" anyway.
Francois
2003-11-29 03:13:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dgates
Or do you view being gay as different from being Hispanic or black,
such that you can use it to slam people you don't like?
Dgates, thanks for helping in the Fight Against Homophobia, but I'M gay and
I didn't see Mojo's rant as truly homophobic. Mostly because Burton isn't
even gay, at least openly. It would be more offensive to pick on, say,
Brandon who was known to be gay, but Mojo was just making "San Francisco"
(et al) jokes more than anything. I didn't think they were FUNNY, but I'm
not going to jump on Mojo when his entire rants frequently contain
stereotypical digs at one group or another.

But, Dg, thanks anyway for noticing.


Francois
Mojo
2003-11-29 04:41:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Francois
Post by Dgates
Or do you view being gay as different from being Hispanic or black,
such that you can use it to slam people you don't like?
Dgates, thanks for helping in the Fight Against Homophobia, but I'M gay and
I didn't see Mojo's rant as truly homophobic. Mostly because Burton isn't
even gay, at least openly. It would be more offensive to pick on, say,
Brandon who was known to be gay, but Mojo was just making "San
Francisco"
Post by Francois
(et al) jokes more than anything. I didn't think they were FUNNY, but I'm
not going to jump on Mojo when his entire rants frequently contain
stereotypical digs at one group or another.
But, Dg, thanks anyway for noticing.
Francois
Btw, when I lived in Berkeley and Oakland, I visted SF often. My bedroom
window even had a teeny tiny view of the Golden Gate Bridge. I consider
The City the most beautiful city I have ever seen, and I have extremely
fond memories of the place and all the adventures I and my friends had
there. In all seriousness, I would never demean, bemoan, or speak
harshly of its denizens. I'm only attacking Burton and Jon, 'cause, you
know, they're Burton and Jon.

If I can get in one or two really funny jokes per rant, I'd say I've
done my job.

mojo
Buckaroo Banzai
2003-11-28 22:41:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mojo
Burton: "Who threw the fish out?" Sandra? Noooo, because she's too busy
yelling and complaining. Note: Sandra understands American politics.
Whenever a politician or political party is guilty of something, look to
them to scream loudest and longest, and try to deflect attention by
complaining about something else while assigning blame to others. Sorta
like when the Fox News Channel screams on and on about being "fair and
balanced", when anyone with a brain can clearly see they are anything
but.
Gee, when did all this "Screaming" take place? I defy you to defend that
statement with hard facts.
Post by Mojo
Both Fox News and Jon share a similar definition of "fair".
Mojo
2003-11-28 23:08:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Mojo
Burton: "Who threw the fish out?" Sandra? Noooo, because she's too busy
yelling and complaining. Note: Sandra understands American politics.
Whenever a politician or political party is guilty of something, look to
them to scream loudest and longest, and try to deflect attention by
complaining about something else while assigning blame to others. Sorta
like when the Fox News Channel screams on and on about being "fair and
balanced", when anyone with a brain can clearly see they are
anything
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Mojo
but.
Gee, when did all this "Screaming" take place? I defy you to defend that
statement with hard facts.
Every fifteen minutes over the past seven years. Especially loud last
summer, when Al Franken beat their asses in court.
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Mojo
Both Fox News and Jon share a similar definition of "fair".
David Quirk
2003-11-28 23:47:34 UTC
Permalink
Fox news scares me sometimes-it is so right wing propagandistic
Buckaroo Banzai
2003-11-29 01:54:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Quirk
Fox news scares me sometimes-it is so right wing propagandistic
I'll challenge you like I just challenged Mojo, who failed to back up his
accusations- Please provide evidence of this so-called right wing
propaganda. Was it when they sponsered the Democratic Black Caucus
Presidential Candidate Debate?
Caliban
2003-11-29 02:11:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by David Quirk
Fox news scares me sometimes-it is so right wing propagandistic
I'll challenge you like I just challenged Mojo, who failed to back up his
accusations- Please provide evidence of this so-called right wing
propaganda. Was it when they sponsered the Democratic Black Caucus
Presidential Candidate Debate?
This past year the New Yorker magazine had a (as usual, long) article on Fox
News and its founder, Roger Ailes. IIRC, based on what Ailes himself said, I
would find it impossible to defend Fox from leaning Right. But I don't think I'd
call Fox anymore propagandistic than National Public Radio. The programming on
both pretty clearly has at least a mild agenda.
Buckaroo Banzai
2003-11-29 04:23:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Caliban
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by David Quirk
Fox news scares me sometimes-it is so right wing propagandistic
I'll challenge you like I just challenged Mojo, who failed to back up his
accusations- Please provide evidence of this so-called right wing
propaganda. Was it when they sponsered the Democratic Black Caucus
Presidential Candidate Debate?
This past year the New Yorker magazine had a (as usual, long) article on Fox
News and its founder, Roger Ailes. IIRC, based on what Ailes himself said, I
would find it impossible to defend Fox from leaning Right. But I don't think I'd
call Fox anymore propagandistic than National Public Radio. The programming on
both pretty clearly has at least a mild agenda.
I won't say that Fox is perfectly on on the bubble, I'd also admit that it
leans right, but that's a far cry from what the poster accused: "it is so
right wing propagandistic"
Mojo
2003-11-29 04:41:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Caliban
Post by Caliban
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by David Quirk
Fox news scares me sometimes-it is so right wing propagandistic
I'll challenge you like I just challenged Mojo, who failed to back
up
Post by Caliban
his
Post by Caliban
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
accusations- Please provide evidence of this so-called right wing
propaganda. Was it when they sponsered the Democratic Black Caucus
Presidential Candidate Debate?
This past year the New Yorker magazine had a (as usual, long)
article on
Post by Caliban
Fox
Post by Caliban
News and its founder, Roger Ailes. IIRC, based on what Ailes himself
said,
Post by Caliban
I
Post by Caliban
would find it impossible to defend Fox from leaning Right. But I
don't
Post by Caliban
think I'd
Post by Caliban
call Fox anymore propagandistic than National Public Radio. The
programming on
Post by Caliban
both pretty clearly has at least a mild agenda.
I won't say that Fox is perfectly on on the bubble, I'd also admit that it
leans right, but that's a far cry from what the poster accused: "it is so
right wing propagandistic"
That would be Newsmax.com.
Buckaroo Banzai
2003-11-29 06:47:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Caliban
Post by Caliban
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by David Quirk
Fox news scares me sometimes-it is so right wing propagandistic
I'll challenge you like I just challenged Mojo, who failed to back
up
Post by Caliban
his
Post by Caliban
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
accusations- Please provide evidence of this so-called right wing
propaganda. Was it when they sponsered the Democratic Black
Caucus
Post by Caliban
Post by Caliban
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Presidential Candidate Debate?
This past year the New Yorker magazine had a (as usual, long)
article on
Post by Caliban
Fox
Post by Caliban
News and its founder, Roger Ailes. IIRC, based on what Ailes himself
said,
Post by Caliban
I
Post by Caliban
would find it impossible to defend Fox from leaning Right. But I
don't
Post by Caliban
think I'd
Post by Caliban
call Fox anymore propagandistic than National Public Radio. The
programming on
Post by Caliban
both pretty clearly has at least a mild agenda.
I won't say that Fox is perfectly on on the bubble, I'd also admit
that it
Post by Caliban
leans right, but that's a far cry from what the poster accused: "it is
so
Post by Caliban
right wing propagandistic"
That would be Newsmax.com.
What would be Newsmax.com?
Mojo
2003-11-29 09:01:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Caliban
Post by Caliban
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by David Quirk
Fox news scares me sometimes-it is so right wing
propagandistic
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Caliban
Post by Caliban
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
I'll challenge you like I just challenged Mojo, who failed to back
up
Post by Caliban
his
Post by Caliban
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
accusations- Please provide evidence of this so-called right wing
propaganda. Was it when they sponsered the Democratic Black
Caucus
Post by Caliban
Post by Caliban
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Presidential Candidate Debate?
This past year the New Yorker magazine had a (as usual, long)
article on
Post by Caliban
Fox
Post by Caliban
News and its founder, Roger Ailes. IIRC, based on what Ailes himself
said,
Post by Caliban
I
Post by Caliban
would find it impossible to defend Fox from leaning Right. But I
don't
Post by Caliban
think I'd
Post by Caliban
call Fox anymore propagandistic than National Public Radio. The
programming on
Post by Caliban
both pretty clearly has at least a mild agenda.
I won't say that Fox is perfectly on on the bubble, I'd also admit
that it
Post by Caliban
leans right, but that's a far cry from what the poster accused: "it is
so
Post by Caliban
right wing propagandistic"
That would be Newsmax.com.
What would be Newsmax.com?
"right wing propagandistic"
Buckaroo Banzai
2003-11-29 09:27:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Quirk
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Caliban
Post by Caliban
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by David Quirk
Fox news scares me sometimes-it is so right wing
propagandistic
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Caliban
Post by Caliban
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
I'll challenge you like I just challenged Mojo, who failed to
back
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
up
Post by Caliban
his
Post by Caliban
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
accusations- Please provide evidence of this so-called right
wing
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Caliban
Post by Caliban
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
propaganda. Was it when they sponsered the Democratic Black
Caucus
Post by Caliban
Post by Caliban
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Presidential Candidate Debate?
This past year the New Yorker magazine had a (as usual, long)
article on
Post by Caliban
Fox
Post by Caliban
News and its founder, Roger Ailes. IIRC, based on what Ailes
himself
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
said,
Post by Caliban
I
Post by Caliban
would find it impossible to defend Fox from leaning Right. But I
don't
Post by Caliban
think I'd
Post by Caliban
call Fox anymore propagandistic than National Public Radio. The
programming on
Post by Caliban
both pretty clearly has at least a mild agenda.
I won't say that Fox is perfectly on on the bubble, I'd also admit
that it
"it is
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
so
Post by Caliban
right wing propagandistic"
That would be Newsmax.com.
What would be Newsmax.com?
"right wing propagandistic"
Well, obviously I can't take your word for it, I'd have to check out the
site for myself...
Mojo
2003-11-29 11:33:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by David Quirk
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Caliban
Post by Caliban
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by David Quirk
Fox news scares me sometimes-it is so right wing
propagandistic
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Caliban
Post by Caliban
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
I'll challenge you like I just challenged Mojo, who failed to
back
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
up
Post by Caliban
his
Post by Caliban
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
accusations- Please provide evidence of this so-called right
wing
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Caliban
Post by Caliban
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
propaganda. Was it when they sponsered the Democratic Black
Caucus
Post by Caliban
Post by Caliban
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Presidential Candidate Debate?
This past year the New Yorker magazine had a (as usual, long)
article on
Post by Caliban
Fox
Post by Caliban
News and its founder, Roger Ailes. IIRC, based on what Ailes
himself
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
said,
Post by Caliban
I
Post by Caliban
would find it impossible to defend Fox from leaning Right. But I
don't
Post by Caliban
think I'd
Post by Caliban
call Fox anymore propagandistic than National Public Radio. The
programming on
Post by Caliban
both pretty clearly has at least a mild agenda.
I won't say that Fox is perfectly on on the bubble, I'd also admit
that it
Post by Caliban
leans right, but that's a far cry from what the poster
"it is
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
so
Post by Caliban
right wing propagandistic"
That would be Newsmax.com.
What would be Newsmax.com?
"right wing propagandistic"
Well, obviously I can't take your word for it, I'd have to check out the
site for myself...
Exactly. Do your own homework.
Buckaroo Banzai
2003-11-29 11:56:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mojo
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by David Quirk
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Caliban
Post by Caliban
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by David Quirk
Fox news scares me sometimes-it is so right wing
propagandistic
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Caliban
Post by Caliban
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
I'll challenge you like I just challenged Mojo, who failed
to
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by David Quirk
back
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
up
Post by Caliban
his
Post by Caliban
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
accusations- Please provide evidence of this so-called
right
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by David Quirk
wing
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Caliban
Post by Caliban
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
propaganda. Was it when they sponsered the Democratic
Black
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by David Quirk
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Caucus
Post by Caliban
Post by Caliban
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Presidential Candidate Debate?
This past year the New Yorker magazine had a (as usual,
long)
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by David Quirk
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
article on
Post by Caliban
Fox
Post by Caliban
News and its founder, Roger Ailes. IIRC, based on what Ailes
himself
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
said,
Post by Caliban
I
Post by Caliban
would find it impossible to defend Fox from leaning Right.
But I
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by David Quirk
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
don't
Post by Caliban
think I'd
Post by Caliban
call Fox anymore propagandistic than National Public Radio.
The
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by David Quirk
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Caliban
programming on
Post by Caliban
both pretty clearly has at least a mild agenda.
I won't say that Fox is perfectly on on the bubble, I'd also
admit
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by David Quirk
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
that it
Post by Caliban
leans right, but that's a far cry from what the poster
"it is
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
so
Post by Caliban
right wing propagandistic"
That would be Newsmax.com.
What would be Newsmax.com?
"right wing propagandistic"
Well, obviously I can't take your word for it, I'd have to check out
the
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
site for myself...
Exactly. Do your own homework.
Don't get all cocky on me, bitch! I'll do or not do my homework independent
of what you command! As a matter of fact. I'm dismissing you . I won't
check the site out, for no other reason than spite.
Mojo
2003-11-29 12:47:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Mojo
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by David Quirk
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Caliban
Post by Caliban
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by David Quirk
Fox news scares me sometimes-it is so right wing
propagandistic
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Caliban
Post by Caliban
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
I'll challenge you like I just challenged Mojo, who failed
to
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by David Quirk
back
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
up
Post by Caliban
his
Post by Caliban
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
accusations- Please provide evidence of this so-called
right
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by David Quirk
wing
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Caliban
Post by Caliban
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
propaganda. Was it when they sponsered the Democratic
Black
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by David Quirk
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Caucus
Post by Caliban
Post by Caliban
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Presidential Candidate Debate?
This past year the New Yorker magazine had a (as usual,
long)
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by David Quirk
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
article on
Post by Caliban
Fox
Post by Caliban
News and its founder, Roger Ailes. IIRC, based on what Ailes
himself
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
said,
Post by Caliban
I
Post by Caliban
would find it impossible to defend Fox from leaning Right.
But I
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by David Quirk
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
don't
Post by Caliban
think I'd
Post by Caliban
call Fox anymore propagandistic than National Public Radio.
The
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by David Quirk
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Caliban
programming on
Post by Caliban
both pretty clearly has at least a mild agenda.
I won't say that Fox is perfectly on on the bubble, I'd also
admit
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by David Quirk
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
that it
Post by Caliban
leans right, but that's a far cry from what the poster
"it is
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
so
Post by Caliban
right wing propagandistic"
That would be Newsmax.com.
What would be Newsmax.com?
"right wing propagandistic"
Well, obviously I can't take your word for it, I'd have to check out
the
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
site for myself...
Exactly. Do your own homework.
Don't get all cocky on me, bitch! I'll do or not do my homework independent
of what you command! As a matter of fact. I'm dismissing you . I won't
check the site out, for no other reason than spite.
Typical.
sue kelso
2003-11-29 04:33:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by David Quirk
Fox news scares me sometimes-it is so right wing propagandistic
I'll challenge you like I just challenged Mojo, who failed to back up his
accusations- Please provide evidence of this so-called right wing
propaganda. Was it when they sponsered the Democratic Black Caucus
Presidential Candidate Debate?
now, i realize this probably won't happen but take a look at Al Franken's
book. He does a credible job of debunking the myth of the liberal media and
also does point out the Fox news is exremely right wing.

sue k
Buckaroo Banzai
2003-11-29 06:53:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by sue kelso
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by David Quirk
Fox news scares me sometimes-it is so right wing propagandistic
I'll challenge you like I just challenged Mojo, who failed to back up his
accusations- Please provide evidence of this so-called right wing
propaganda. Was it when they sponsered the Democratic Black Caucus
Presidential Candidate Debate?
now, i realize this probably won't happen but take a look at Al Franken's
book.
I won't pay for his book for obvious reasons, but if I were to happen across
a copy of his book I would read it at the behest of a rational liberal's
request.

On Thanksgiving C-SPAN re-broadcast some sort of political pundit author
gathering, there were many panel members, but the ones I saw were Ann
Coulter, and Al Franken. And I honestly tried to have an open mind and
listen to what he had to say, but all he did was spout rhetoric- "The
Patriot Act" is equal to "Japanese Family Relocation Act of 1942" etc, etc.
I just couldn't stand it. I just can't stand the guy- he spouts off without
any facts to back it up.





He does a credible job of debunking the myth of the liberal media and
Post by sue kelso
also does point out the Fox news is exremely right wing.
Really? I'd love to hear a credible debunking of the "myth of the liberal
media". And BTW, I'm not being sarcastic to you as a person, Sue, just your
viewpoint.
Douglas Berry
2003-11-29 08:56:02 UTC
Permalink
Lo, many moons past, on Sat, 29 Nov 2003 06:53:00 GMT, a stranger
called by some "Buckaroo Banzai" <***@yahoo.com> came forth
and told this tale in alt.tv.survivor
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
I won't pay for his book for obvious reasons, but if I were to happen across
a copy of his book I would read it at the behest of a rational liberal's
request.
It's in the library. It's very interesting, and if I can read Bill
O'reilly's book, ou can read Franken's..
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
Buckaroo Banzai
2003-11-29 09:29:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Douglas Berry
Lo, many moons past, on Sat, 29 Nov 2003 06:53:00 GMT, a stranger
and told this tale in alt.tv.survivor
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
I won't pay for his book for obvious reasons, but if I were to happen across
a copy of his book I would read it at the behest of a rational liberal's
request.
It's in the library. It's very interesting, and if I can read Bill
O'reilly's book, ou can read Franken's..
I completely agree with you- I'll look for it at the library.
Caliban
2003-11-29 16:14:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by sue kelso
now, i realize this probably won't happen but take a look at Al Franken's
book.
I won't pay for his book for obvious reasons, but if I were to happen across
a copy of his book I would read it at the behest of a rational liberal's
request.
On Thanksgiving C-SPAN re-broadcast some sort of political pundit author
gathering, there were many panel members, but the ones I saw were Ann
Coulter, and Al Franken. And I honestly tried to have an open mind and
listen to what he had to say, but all he did was spout rhetoric- "The
Patriot Act" is equal to "Japanese Family Relocation Act of 1942" etc, etc.
I just couldn't stand it. I just can't stand the guy- he spouts off without
any facts to back it up.
Right. Most of the time he just wants to be heard and so says outrageous things
towards that end, not to get out any facts.

I do grant he's funny, though. His book might be somewhat worthwhile from this
point of view.
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by sue kelso
He does a credible job of debunking the myth of the liberal media and
also does point out the Fox news is exremely right wing.
Really? I'd love to hear a credible debunking of the "myth of the liberal
media". And BTW, I'm not being sarcastic to you as a person, Sue, just your
viewpoint.
I think it's very fair to say that Mr. Franken is himself either a part of the
extreme liberal media or he's just being a clown when he makes jokes that are
caricatures of the Right, and so should not be taken seriously in the first
place. I wouldn't consider his opinions on the media well-balanced at all.

Worse, it's hard to believe Franken does not profit mightily from Right Wing
policies, such as corporate tax breaks (surely he owns stock), and otherwise
exploit where he can with his wealth the vast divide between rich and poor.

The liberal media needs a "debunking" (as Buck says) as much as the Right Wing
media.
David Quirk
2003-11-29 11:28:25 UTC
Permalink
Let's see.... Fox has:

O'Reilly-right winger
Hannity-right winger
North-right winger
all 3 morning hosts-right wingers
even the ones I dont know the names of-right wingers.

OOOOh and one little token liberal Colmes-thanks for throwing us a bone
Murdoch.
Buckaroo Banzai
2003-11-29 12:01:21 UTC
Permalink
Colmes
Rivera
Van Sustren
"even the ones I don't know the names of-left wingers."
O'Reilly-right winger- WRONG!
Hannity-right winger- CORRECT
North-right winger- CORRECT
all 3 morning hosts-right wingers If ya can't name 'em, they're
disqualified.
even the ones I dont know the names of-right wingers. Nigga please!
OOOOh and one little token liberal Colmes-thanks for throwing us a bone
Murdoch.
Try harder!
Jessica Jones
2003-11-29 19:07:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Quirk
O'Reilly-right winger
Hannity-right winger
North-right winger
all 3 morning hosts-right wingers
even the ones I dont know the names of-right wingers.
OOOOh and one little token liberal Colmes-thanks for throwing us a bone
Murdoch.
Mort Kondrake - Belway Boys
Jane Hall - NewsWatch
Neal Gabler - NewsWatch

But I totally agree on the morning show, even I'd like to see it a little
more balanced.

Jessica
Jazz
2003-11-29 19:45:51 UTC
Permalink
Jessica Jones wrote:
Re: Fox "news"
Post by Jessica Jones
But I totally agree on the morning show, even I'd like to see it a little
more balanced.
I would like to have seen Atilla the Hun a "little less agressive" too.
;-)

Fox news, particularly on Sunday mornings is a huge joke. There's a
block of time where I live in between Meet the Press and Face the Nation
where, if I'm not busy, I have occasionally switched over to their "news
interview" show. It's enough to make you spit coffee.

If you ever watch the legitimate news interview shows, such as the two
mentioned above, you'll see a pattern. An interviewer will have a guest
on. Could be from either side of the aisle, a senator, a cabinet member,
what have you. They ask them questions. Then they sit quietly and listen
while the guest answers. Occasoinally they might then ask a follow-up
question, though more often it's on to the next question. Some of them
have a round table at the end to discuss the answers.

Fox is completely different. They usually only have right wing Dittohead
heros for guests, but on occasion they get somebody less extreme or even
*gasp* a Democrat. It's almost horrifying to watch. They ask a question,
and before the guest can even get three sentences into the answer, I
have actuallys SEEN the interviewer (and I'm not making this up!)
interrupt the poor bastard, tell him why his answer is wrong and start
accusing him of things. I mean, it's simply staggering. The entire
network is a full motion 24/7 advertisement for the GOP. (And I'm
technically a Republican by registration, though I vote independently
for who I think is best, and certainly didn't vote for the Shrub.)

The problem is, I don't think there are any sort of regulations about
what can or can not be called a "news show" on the media, and Fox has a
ton of money, so they keep getting away with it.
--
jaZZ

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm
not sure about the former. "
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
Mojo
2003-11-29 21:44:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jazz
Re: Fox "news"
Post by Jessica Jones
But I totally agree on the morning show, even I'd like to see it a little
more balanced.
I would like to have seen Atilla the Hun a "little less agressive" too.
;-)
Fox news, particularly on Sunday mornings is a huge joke. There's a
block of time where I live in between Meet the Press and Face the Nation
where, if I'm not busy, I have occasionally switched over to their "news
interview" show. It's enough to make you spit coffee.
If you ever watch the legitimate news interview shows, such as the two
mentioned above, you'll see a pattern. An interviewer will have a guest
on. Could be from either side of the aisle, a senator, a cabinet member,
what have you. They ask them questions. Then they sit quietly and listen
while the guest answers. Occasoinally they might then ask a follow-up
question, though more often it's on to the next question. Some of them
have a round table at the end to discuss the answers.
Fox is completely different. They usually only have right wing
Dittohead
Post by Jazz
heros for guests, but on occasion they get somebody less extreme or even
*gasp* a Democrat. It's almost horrifying to watch. They ask a
question,
Post by Jazz
and before the guest can even get three sentences into the answer, I
have actuallys SEEN the interviewer (and I'm not making this up!)
interrupt the poor bastard, tell him why his answer is wrong and start
accusing him of things. I mean, it's simply staggering.
This also happens daily during the panel discussion on "Special Report
With Brit Hume" to moderates Mort Kondracke, Mara Liasson, and CeCe
Connolly (forgive me my possible spelling errors). While conservatives
like Fred Barnes and Bill Salmon are given free reign to espouse not
only their views, but to interrupt the other pundits, often ridiculing
them in the process (Barnes is relentless in his attacks on Kondracke),
rarely are any of the moderate voices allowed to finish two or even a
single sentence without being interrupted. The result is they lose their
train of thought, and their arguments are at least diminshed if not
totally shouted down. Notice also the conservatives are always given
both the first and last word.

Hume, btw, is a former Reagan speechwriter. His fill-in, Tony Snow, was
a Bush speechwriter. And they don't even bother trying to hide their
conservative biases.
Post by Jazz
The entire
network is a full motion 24/7 advertisement for the GOP. (And I'm
technically a Republican by registration, though I vote independently
for who I think is best, and certainly didn't vote for the Shrub.)
The problem is, I don't think there are any sort of regulations about
what can or can not be called a "news show" on the media, and Fox has a
ton of money, so they keep getting away with it.
Fox News is not a news channel. It is a right-wing tabloid channel that
masquerades as a news channel. I love it when O'Reilly or Shep Smith
decry the amount of, say, Michael Jackson coverage on MSNBC or CNN,
while failing to note that other FNC shows, like John Gibson's, Sean
Hannity's, and Greta van Sustern's have been devoting entire hours on
almost a daily basis for the past two weeks to the matter. Oh, and those
videos someone in Jackson's private plane? The ones the aircraft company
shot on the day of his arrest, and tried to peddle to reporters? They
went straight to FNC's Trace Gallagher first. And he was only too happy
to announce that all day and all night long. Just an example.
Post by Jazz
--
jaZZ
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm
not sure about the former. "
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
RolfN
2003-11-29 19:56:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Quirk
O'Reilly-right winger
Hannity-right winger
North-right winger
all 3 morning hosts-right wingers
even the ones I dont know the names of-right wingers.
OOOOh and one little token liberal Colmes-thanks for throwing us a bone
Murdoch.
OK, now how about all the names of right-wingers on other major news station
(NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, NPR).... Feel free to include anyone on the morning
"news and entertainment" shows like good Morning America.

Hmmmm.... one station with several conservatives and an open bias, vs. other
all other major stations with none, but which claim to be
neutral.....Yahsureyoubetcha.

RolfN
jess
2003-11-29 21:06:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by RolfN
OK, now how about all the names of right-wingers on other major news
station (NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, NPR).... Feel free to include anyone on the
morning "news and entertainment" shows like good Morning America.
Post by RolfN
Hmmmm.... one station with several conservatives and an open bias, vs.
other all other major stations with none, but which claim to be
neutral.....Yahsureyoubetcha.


It's going to take them quite a while to come up with any names. You didn't
give a time limit, did you? ;)
Mojo
2003-11-29 21:48:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by RolfN
Post by David Quirk
O'Reilly-right winger
Hannity-right winger
North-right winger
all 3 morning hosts-right wingers
even the ones I dont know the names of-right wingers.
OOOOh and one little token liberal Colmes-thanks for throwing us a bone
Murdoch.
OK, now how about all the names of right-wingers on other major news station
(NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, NPR).... Feel free to include anyone on the morning
"news and entertainment" shows like good Morning America.
Hmmmm.... one station with several conservatives and an open bias, vs. other
all other major stations with none, but which claim to be
neutral.....Yahsureyoubetcha.
RolfN
You are missing the point. Those other stations don't scream "fair and
balanced" every fifteen seconds. Fox tries to claim it _is_ being fair
because it has people like Ellen Ratner, Geraldine Ferraro, and
whatshername from "The McLaughlin Group" signed up as "regular"
contributors. However, actually watching Fox News reveals that these
liberal voices appear for less than five minutes per month, while
conservatives such as Ann Coulter, William Bennett, and Newt Gingrich
appear weekly, if not nearly daily. "Fair and Balanced"? Anything but.
RolfN
2003-11-29 22:05:16 UTC
Permalink
[snip]
Post by Mojo
Post by RolfN
Hmmmm.... one station with several conservatives and an open bias, vs.
other
Post by RolfN
all other major stations with none, but which claim to be
neutral.....Yahsureyoubetcha.
RolfN
You are missing the point. Those other stations don't scream "fair and
balanced" every fifteen seconds. Fox tries to claim it _is_ being fair
because it has people like Ellen Ratner, Geraldine Ferraro, and
whatshername from "The McLaughlin Group" signed up as "regular"
contributors. However, actually watching Fox News reveals that these
liberal voices appear for less than five minutes per month, while
conservatives such as Ann Coulter, William Bennett, and Newt Gingrich
appear weekly, if not nearly daily. "Fair and Balanced"? Anything but.
Given your rants, I assume you are familiar with the expression
"tongue-in-cheek?" :-)

"Fair and balanced?" Not really, but compared to the other organizations,
they are, if only because they counter-balance the far left on the other
majors, so it is more apparent, and lets the viewer decide, as opposed to
pre-digesting everything under a mantle of impartiality.

RolfN
sue kelso
2003-11-29 23:01:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by RolfN
[snip]
Post by Mojo
Post by RolfN
Hmmmm.... one station with several conservatives and an open bias, vs.
other
Post by RolfN
all other major stations with none, but which claim to be
neutral.....Yahsureyoubetcha.
RolfN
You are missing the point. Those other stations don't scream "fair and
balanced" every fifteen seconds. Fox tries to claim it _is_ being fair
because it has people like Ellen Ratner, Geraldine Ferraro, and
whatshername from "The McLaughlin Group" signed up as "regular"
contributors. However, actually watching Fox News reveals that these
liberal voices appear for less than five minutes per month, while
conservatives such as Ann Coulter, William Bennett, and Newt Gingrich
appear weekly, if not nearly daily. "Fair and Balanced"? Anything but.
Given your rants, I assume you are familiar with the expression
"tongue-in-cheek?" :-)
"Fair and balanced?" Not really, but compared to the other organizations,
they are, if only because they counter-balance the far left on the other
majors, so it is more apparent, and lets the viewer decide, as opposed to
pre-digesting everything under a mantle of impartiality.
RolfN
what planet do you live on? You are assuming that all the other networks
have a liberal bias, but if you did some research into actual stories, i.e.
bush v gore election, you would see this is not the case.

sue k
RolfN
2003-11-30 00:10:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by sue kelso
Post by RolfN
[snip]
Post by Mojo
Post by RolfN
Hmmmm.... one station with several conservatives and an open bias, vs.
other
Post by RolfN
all other major stations with none, but which claim to be
neutral.....Yahsureyoubetcha.
RolfN
You are missing the point. Those other stations don't scream "fair and
balanced" every fifteen seconds. Fox tries to claim it _is_ being fair
because it has people like Ellen Ratner, Geraldine Ferraro, and
whatshername from "The McLaughlin Group" signed up as "regular"
contributors. However, actually watching Fox News reveals that these
liberal voices appear for less than five minutes per month, while
conservatives such as Ann Coulter, William Bennett, and Newt Gingrich
appear weekly, if not nearly daily. "Fair and Balanced"? Anything but.
Given your rants, I assume you are familiar with the expression
"tongue-in-cheek?" :-)
"Fair and balanced?" Not really, but compared to the other
organizations,
Post by sue kelso
Post by RolfN
they are, if only because they counter-balance the far left on the other
majors, so it is more apparent, and lets the viewer decide, as opposed to
pre-digesting everything under a mantle of impartiality.
RolfN
what planet do you live on? You are assuming that all the other networks
have a liberal bias, but if you did some research into actual stories, i.e.
bush v gore election, you would see this is not the case.
sue k
What planet? Earth, last I checked. I'm not assuming anything; I'm just
stating what I have seen time and again with my own eyes, and what I've seen
in research from a number of organizations (other than left-wing ones, who
never find anything wrong with the media except "right-wing hate radio" and
Fox). As for Bush vs. Gore, I'm sure you know that there were TWO US supreme
court decisions; care to state which one you think they got wrong, and why,
and exactly how the outcome would have been different if they'd decided
otherwise, given the fact that the margin of error was larger than the
margin of difference in any case?

No liberal bias? Then how is it that in the school shootings that were
stopped by an armed civilian on the scene, less than 2% of news stories
reported that fact? Spin by omission of relevant facts is still bias.

RolfN
sue kelso
2003-11-30 15:45:11 UTC
Permalink
"> > >
Post by RolfN
Post by sue kelso
Post by RolfN
what planet do you live on? You are assuming that all the other
networks
Post by sue kelso
have a liberal bias, but if you did some research into actual stories,
i.e.
Post by sue kelso
bush v gore election, you would see this is not the case.
sue k
What planet? Earth, last I checked. I'm not assuming anything; I'm just
stating what I have seen time and again with my own eyes, and what I've seen
in research from a number of organizations (other than left-wing ones, who
never find anything wrong with the media except "right-wing hate radio" and
Fox). As for Bush vs. Gore, I'm sure you know that there were TWO US supreme
court decisions; care to state which one you think they got wrong, and why,
and exactly how the outcome would have been different if they'd decided
otherwise, given the fact that the margin of error was larger than the
margin of difference in any case?
No liberal bias? Then how is it that in the school shootings that were
stopped by an armed civilian on the scene, less than 2% of news stories
reported that fact? Spin by omission of relevant facts is still bias.
RolfN
I'm not talking about the SCOTUS decision, I am talking about the myth of
the liberal media.

According to the Pew Charitable Trusts, media coverage fell this way

Gore Bush
Positive 13% 24%
Neutral 31% 27%
Negative 56% 49%

Total 100% 100%
The Pew Charitable Trusts is a mainstream prestigious foundation. Their
Project for excellence in Journalism comes out of the Columbia School of
Journalism

When AL Gore told Wolf Blitzer that he took the initiative in creating the
internet, he was taking credit for a program he championed and funded, which
was to provide funding for the Arpenet. The phrase "inventing the internet"
was first published in a REpublican Party press release and was then
repeated by the "Liberal" media.

sue k
RolfN
2003-11-30 21:42:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by sue kelso
"> > >
Post by RolfN
Post by sue kelso
Post by RolfN
what planet do you live on? You are assuming that all the other
networks
Post by sue kelso
have a liberal bias, but if you did some research into actual stories,
i.e.
Post by sue kelso
bush v gore election, you would see this is not the case.
sue k
What planet? Earth, last I checked. I'm not assuming anything; I'm just
stating what I have seen time and again with my own eyes, and what I've
seen
Post by RolfN
in research from a number of organizations (other than left-wing ones, who
never find anything wrong with the media except "right-wing hate radio"
and
Post by RolfN
Fox). As for Bush vs. Gore, I'm sure you know that there were TWO US
supreme
Post by RolfN
court decisions; care to state which one you think they got wrong, and
why,
Post by RolfN
and exactly how the outcome would have been different if they'd decided
otherwise, given the fact that the margin of error was larger than the
margin of difference in any case?
No liberal bias? Then how is it that in the school shootings that were
stopped by an armed civilian on the scene, less than 2% of news stories
reported that fact? Spin by omission of relevant facts is still bias.
RolfN
I'm not talking about the SCOTUS decision, I am talking about the myth of
the liberal media.
According to the Pew Charitable Trusts, media coverage fell this way
Gore Bush
Positive 13% 24%
Neutral 31% 27%
Negative 56% 49%
Total 100% 100%
The Pew Charitable Trusts is a mainstream prestigious foundation. Their
Project for excellence in Journalism comes out of the Columbia School of
Journalism
Well, lesse here.... Just for the sake of argument, let's assume those
numbers are correct. How does a slight bias in one direction on ONE story
address the thousands of stories slanted the other way? Check out:
http://secure.mediaresearch.org/news/MediaBiasBasics.html for just one of
many more general overviews of media bias. Or isn't the Media Research
Center a credible source?

Then again, negative coverage of Gore and positive coverage of Bush on one
story is in itself evidence of bias. It may simply be that Gore was being
more obviously a pinhead, so they felt compelled to call him a pinhead,
which would count as "negative coverage." It's the long-term biases, and
failure to report relevant details that I'm more concerned with.

RolfN
Post by sue kelso
When AL Gore told Wolf Blitzer that he took the initiative in creating the
internet, he was taking credit for a program he championed and funded, which
was to provide funding for the Arpenet. The phrase "inventing the internet"
was first published in a REpublican Party press release and was then
repeated by the "Liberal" media.
sue k
sue kelso
2003-11-30 22:05:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by RolfN
Well, lesse here.... Just for the sake of argument, let's assume those
numbers are correct. How does a slight bias in one direction on ONE story
http://secure.mediaresearch.org/news/MediaBiasBasics.html for just one of
many more general overviews of media bias. Or isn't the Media Research
Center a credible source?
Let me do some research into them...but my guess is that when they have a
blurb on the homepage about stopping liberal media bias, they are not
unbiased themselves.

I'll get back to you

sue k
sue kelso
2003-11-30 22:07:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by sue kelso
Post by RolfN
Well, lesse here.... Just for the sake of argument, let's assume those
numbers are correct. How does a slight bias in one direction on ONE story
http://secure.mediaresearch.org/news/MediaBiasBasics.html for just one of
many more general overviews of media bias. Or isn't the Media Research
Center a credible source?
Let me do some research into them...but my guess is that when they have a
blurb on the homepage about stopping liberal media bias, they are not
unbiased themselves.
I'll get back to you
sue k
http://secure.mediaresearch.org/Welcome.asp

this is a link from their site. how can you in any shape or form not see
they have a right wing bias?
sue kelso
2003-12-01 00:26:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by sue kelso
Post by sue kelso
Post by RolfN
Well, lesse here.... Just for the sake of argument, let's assume those
numbers are correct. How does a slight bias in one direction on ONE
story
Post by sue kelso
Post by RolfN
http://secure.mediaresearch.org/news/MediaBiasBasics.html for just one
of
Post by sue kelso
Post by RolfN
many more general overviews of media bias. Or isn't the Media Research
Center a credible source?
Let me do some research into them...but my guess is that when they have a
blurb on the homepage about stopping liberal media bias, they are not
unbiased themselves.
I'll get back to you
sue k
http://secure.mediaresearch.org/Welcome.asp
this is a link from their site. how can you in any shape or form not see
they have a right wing bias?
or this on the founder
http://www.mediatransparency.org/people/brent_bozell.htm
RolfN
2003-12-01 00:40:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by sue kelso
Post by sue kelso
Post by RolfN
Well, lesse here.... Just for the sake of argument, let's assume those
numbers are correct. How does a slight bias in one direction on ONE
story
Post by sue kelso
Post by RolfN
http://secure.mediaresearch.org/news/MediaBiasBasics.html for just one
of
Post by sue kelso
Post by RolfN
many more general overviews of media bias. Or isn't the Media Research
Center a credible source?
Let me do some research into them...but my guess is that when they have a
blurb on the homepage about stopping liberal media bias, they are not
unbiased themselves.
I'll get back to you
sue k
http://secure.mediaresearch.org/Welcome.asp
this is a link from their site. how can you in any shape or form not see
they have a right wing bias?
So you are disputing their data? Which part? Or do you think it's ALL wrong,
and the majority of reporters and newsroom staff are not left-leaning, etc?

I asked if you thought they were a credible resource - obviously you don't
:-)

Seriously, though, that was just the first of 30,000 or so hits Google came
up with under the subject of "media bias." The Pew Charitable Trust pushes
publicly funded pre-school from the very early years, economically
questionable environmental policy, abortion rights, anti-gun policies,
big-brother-ish national health policies, and makes grants mostly to
left-wing causes and organizations. How can *you* say with a straight face
that PCT is "unbiased?"

"Media bias" is a variable-definition term, a sort of Rorschach-test. If you
are a leftist, you see a right-wing bias, if you are on the political right
you see left-wing bias. Being a libertarian myself, I see far to much spin,
bias, and crap from both sides. To me, it isn't just one story, or one
event; it is a constant barrage of misinformation, significant stories not
reported (or if reported, buried on section G, page 42), double standards,
and inexcusable ignorance. With Fox, you know where they are coming from, so
it's easy to filter; NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, et al, *claim* to be neutral when
they obviously (to me anyway) aren't, making their biases more subtle and
subversive to a less well educated audience.

I'd bet we'll have to agree to disagree on this, but if you'd like to
continue the discussion off-line, I'd be happy to do so.

RolfN
sue kelso
2003-12-01 02:04:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by RolfN
Post by sue kelso
Post by sue kelso
Post by RolfN
Well, lesse here.... Just for the sake of argument, let's assume
those
Post by sue kelso
Post by sue kelso
Post by RolfN
numbers are correct. How does a slight bias in one direction on ONE
story
Post by sue kelso
Post by RolfN
http://secure.mediaresearch.org/news/MediaBiasBasics.html for just one
of
Post by sue kelso
Post by RolfN
many more general overviews of media bias. Or isn't the Media
Research
Post by sue kelso
Post by sue kelso
Post by RolfN
Center a credible source?
Let me do some research into them...but my guess is that when they
have
Post by RolfN
a
Post by sue kelso
Post by sue kelso
blurb on the homepage about stopping liberal media bias, they are not
unbiased themselves.
I'll get back to you
sue k
http://secure.mediaresearch.org/Welcome.asp
this is a link from their site. how can you in any shape or form not see
they have a right wing bias?
So you are disputing their data? Which part? Or do you think it's ALL wrong,
and the majority of reporters and newsroom staff are not left-leaning, etc?
I asked if you thought they were a credible resource - obviously you don't
:-)
Seriously, though, that was just the first of 30,000 or so hits Google came
up with under the subject of "media bias." The Pew Charitable Trust pushes
publicly funded pre-school from the very early years, economically
questionable environmental policy, abortion rights, anti-gun policies,
big-brother-ish national health policies, and makes grants mostly to
left-wing causes and organizations. How can *you* say with a straight face
that PCT is "unbiased?"
"Media bias" is a variable-definition term, a sort of Rorschach-test. If you
are a leftist, you see a right-wing bias, if you are on the political right
you see left-wing bias. Being a libertarian myself, I see far to much spin,
bias, and crap from both sides. To me, it isn't just one story, or one
event; it is a constant barrage of misinformation, significant stories not
reported (or if reported, buried on section G, page 42), double standards,
and inexcusable ignorance. With Fox, you know where they are coming from, so
it's easy to filter; NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, et al, *claim* to be neutral when
they obviously (to me anyway) aren't, making their biases more subtle and
subversive to a less well educated audience.
I'd bet we'll have to agree to disagree on this, but if you'd like to
continue the discussion off-line, I'd be happy to do so.
RolfN
nope, i'm done. but seriously, you should read Al Franken's book.

sue k
Mojo
2003-11-29 23:13:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by RolfN
[snip]
Post by Mojo
Post by RolfN
Hmmmm.... one station with several conservatives and an open bias, vs.
other
Post by RolfN
all other major stations with none, but which claim to be
neutral.....Yahsureyoubetcha.
RolfN
You are missing the point. Those other stations don't scream "fair and
balanced" every fifteen seconds. Fox tries to claim it _is_ being fair
because it has people like Ellen Ratner, Geraldine Ferraro, and
whatshername from "The McLaughlin Group" signed up as "regular"
contributors. However, actually watching Fox News reveals that these
liberal voices appear for less than five minutes per month, while
conservatives such as Ann Coulter, William Bennett, and Newt
Gingrich
Post by RolfN
Post by Mojo
appear weekly, if not nearly daily. "Fair and Balanced"? Anything but.
Given your rants, I assume you are familiar with the expression
"tongue-in-cheek?" :-)
"Fair and balanced?" Not really, but compared to the other
organizations,
Post by RolfN
they are, if only because they counter-balance the far left on the other
majors, so it is more apparent, and lets the viewer decide, as opposed to
pre-digesting everything under a mantle of impartiality.
RolfN
You mean, 'We Report, You Decide"? Another FNC lie. How can any thinking
individual come to an informed decision when they "information" they are
given is so blatantly biased to one side? Answer: get your news from a
_variety_ of sources, especially those O'Whiny likes to slam every day.
RolfN
2003-11-30 00:00:27 UTC
Permalink
[snip]
Post by RolfN
Post by RolfN
"Fair and balanced?" Not really, but compared to the other
organizations,
Post by RolfN
they are, if only because they counter-balance the far left on the
other
Post by RolfN
majors, so it is more apparent, and lets the viewer decide, as opposed
to
Post by RolfN
pre-digesting everything under a mantle of impartiality.
RolfN
You mean, 'We Report, You Decide"? Another FNC lie. How can any thinking
individual come to an informed decision when they "information" they are
given is so blatantly biased to one side? Answer: get your news from a
_variety_ of sources, especially those O'Whiny likes to slam every day.
Yuppers, absolutely. Actually, I get only a small portion of my news from TV
any more, because it is *all* so bad, in terms of getting basic facts wrong,
deliberate distortion of facts and/or blatant ignorance, obvious spin, and
major story omissions (i.e., self-censorship). My browser "favorites" has
everything from www.worldnetdaily.com to www.arabnews.com/ to
www.drudgereport.com to the London Times and the BBC, to CNN.com and FT.com
to local TV, radio, and newspapers to...... Well, it's easier to just say
that my Media "favorites" list is about 60 lines long, and I check almost
all of them at least once a month.

I don't have cable TV, so I can't personally comment on stuff only seen
there. However, I think I can get more from a broadcast that has an obvious
position and spin, than one that masquerades as impartial. I may be wrong,
but that's been my experience.

WRT a previous comment about the aggressiveness of the Fox interviewers in
cutting off their interview-ees, I think that when a guest is obviously
spinning the answer or evading anything resembling a real answer, they
*should* be cut off and/or harassed into answering the questions that was
asked. When reporters like Jennings, Blather, at al ask soft questions, and
even then let the interviewee not answer them (unless it's someone the
reporter doesn't like), I ask myself "what's the point of asking the
question if you are just going to let them dodge and spin it for their own
agenda?"
Justice Cow
2003-11-30 04:21:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by RolfN
Post by RolfN
Post by David Quirk
O'Reilly-right winger
Hannity-right winger
North-right winger
all 3 morning hosts-right wingers
even the ones I dont know the names of-right wingers.
OOOOh and one little token liberal Colmes-thanks for throwing us a
bone
Post by RolfN
Post by David Quirk
Murdoch.
OK, now how about all the names of right-wingers on other major news
station
Post by RolfN
(NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, NPR).... Feel free to include anyone on the
morning
Post by RolfN
"news and entertainment" shows like good Morning America.
Hmmmm.... one station with several conservatives and an open bias, vs.
other
Post by RolfN
all other major stations with none, but which claim to be
neutral.....Yahsureyoubetcha.
RolfN
You are missing the point. Those other stations don't scream "fair and
balanced" every fifteen seconds. Fox tries to claim it _is_ being fair
because it has people like Ellen Ratner, Geraldine Ferraro, and
whatshername from "The McLaughlin Group" signed up as "regular"
contributors. However, actually watching Fox News reveals that these
liberal voices appear for less than five minutes per month, while
conservatives such as Ann Coulter, William Bennett, and Newt Gingrich
appear weekly, if not nearly daily. "Fair and Balanced"? Anything but.
ann colter is psychotic. truly. listening to her makes my scalp crawl.
Mojo
2003-11-30 07:58:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Justice Cow
Post by RolfN
Post by RolfN
Post by David Quirk
O'Reilly-right winger
Hannity-right winger
North-right winger
all 3 morning hosts-right wingers
even the ones I dont know the names of-right wingers.
OOOOh and one little token liberal Colmes-thanks for throwing us a
bone
Post by RolfN
Post by David Quirk
Murdoch.
OK, now how about all the names of right-wingers on other major news
station
Post by RolfN
(NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, NPR).... Feel free to include anyone on the
morning
Post by RolfN
"news and entertainment" shows like good Morning America.
Hmmmm.... one station with several conservatives and an open bias, vs.
other
Post by RolfN
all other major stations with none, but which claim to be
neutral.....Yahsureyoubetcha.
RolfN
You are missing the point. Those other stations don't scream "fair and
balanced" every fifteen seconds. Fox tries to claim it _is_ being fair
because it has people like Ellen Ratner, Geraldine Ferraro, and
whatshername from "The McLaughlin Group" signed up as "regular"
contributors. However, actually watching Fox News reveals that these
liberal voices appear for less than five minutes per month, while
conservatives such as Ann Coulter, William Bennett, and Newt
Gingrich
Post by Justice Cow
Post by RolfN
appear weekly, if not nearly daily. "Fair and Balanced"? Anything but.
ann colter is psychotic. truly. listening to her makes my scalp crawl.
In that case (and I agree with you), this should make you lose sleep:

http://www.talkingpresidents.com/products-af-coulter.shtml
Justice Cow
2003-12-01 17:17:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Justice Cow
Post by Justice Cow
ann colter is psychotic. truly. listening to her makes my scalp
crawl.
http://www.talkingpresidents.com/products-af-coulter.shtml
YIKES!!!
David Quirk
2003-11-30 11:35:52 UTC
Permalink
I heard that Ann Coulter has an adams apple--

also when questioned about her book "Treason" she never did answer
Colmes' question how Democrats have been treasonous.

Plus the bitch is a chain smoking nympho with a dingly dangly of her
own.
Robert Underhill
2003-12-02 02:26:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by David Quirk
Fox news scares me sometimes-it is so right wing propagandistic
I'll challenge you like I just challenged Mojo, who failed to back up his
accusations- Please provide evidence of this so-called right wing
propaganda. Was it when they sponsered the Democratic Black Caucus
Presidential Candidate Debate?
I suppose it would be too much to expect, coming back after Thanksgiving
to find 89 postings in the thread starting with Mojo's rant, to find
some substantial portion of them about the rant, instead of degenerating
almost at once into the usual left vs right, right vs left farting
contest.
--
Bob Underhill
To answer by e-mail delete everything in caps in the address.
Mojo
2003-12-02 03:56:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Underhill
Post by Buckaroo Banzai
Post by David Quirk
Fox news scares me sometimes-it is so right wing propagandistic
I'll challenge you like I just challenged Mojo, who failed to back up his
accusations- Please provide evidence of this so-called right wing
propaganda. Was it when they sponsered the Democratic Black Caucus
Presidential Candidate Debate?
I suppose it would be too much to expect, coming back after
Thanksgiving
Post by Robert Underhill
to find 89 postings in the thread starting with Mojo's rant, to find
some substantial portion of them about the rant, instead of
degenerating
Post by Robert Underhill
almost at once into the usual left vs right, right vs left farting
contest.
--
Bob Underhill
To answer by e-mail delete everything in caps in the address.
I'm just glad they're not 88 unique ways of calling mojo a dumbass.
sue kelso
2003-11-29 04:25:11 UTC
Permalink
Jon: "It was either going to be my buddy or my grandmother, coming. And,
uh, my grandmother's not here for a reason." Umm, yeah, like she's too
old to fly to Panama just to spend two minutes with you? You're what,
29, Jon? That would make "grandmother", what? 70? 75? 80? And we're
supposed to believe you were going to make her, healthy or not, come all
this way?

Ah mojo? love the rants and realize you are an equal opportunity offender
:-)...but i want you to know my 72 year old mother learned to rappel this
year, skis and rides her bike 50+ miles a week......ok?

oh, and right now she's on her way across the atlantic.....on a boat.....

sue k
Mojo
2003-11-29 04:44:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mojo
Jon: "It was either going to be my buddy or my grandmother, coming. And,
uh, my grandmother's not here for a reason." Umm, yeah, like she's too
old to fly to Panama just to spend two minutes with you? You're what,
29, Jon? That would make "grandmother", what? 70? 75? 80? And we're
supposed to believe you were going to make her, healthy or not, come all
this way?
Ah mojo? love the rants and realize you are an equal opportunity offender
:-)...but i want you to know my 72 year old mother learned to rappel this
year, skis and rides her bike 50+ miles a week......ok?
oh, and right now she's on her way across the atlantic.....on a boat.....
sue k
Wow, really? What's her name, Wonder Woman? She sounds like a candidate
for "Survivor" or "The Amazing Race"...

mojo
thinks reality television needs more geezers and fewer dumbasses
diddy
2003-11-29 12:07:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mojo
Jon: "It was either going to be my buddy or my grandmother, coming.
And, uh, my grandmother's not here for a reason." Umm, yeah, like
she's too old to fly to Panama just to spend two minutes with you?
You're what, 29, Jon? That would make "grandmother", what? 70? 75? 80?
And we're supposed to believe you were going to make her, healthy or
not, come all this way?
Ah mojo? love the rants and realize you are an equal opportunity offender
:-)...but i want you to know my 72 year old mother learned to rappel
:this
year, skis and rides her bike 50+ miles a week......ok?
oh, and right now she's on her way across the atlantic.....on a boat.....
sue k
My 76 year old mom and dad are at Woods Hole right now on a research ship.
If they had a chance to go to Pearl Islands, they would certainly jump on
it!
Caliban
2003-11-29 16:20:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by diddy
Post by Mojo
Jon: "It was either going to be my buddy or my grandmother, coming.
And, uh, my grandmother's not here for a reason." Umm, yeah, like
she's too old to fly to Panama just to spend two minutes with you?
You're what, 29, Jon? That would make "grandmother", what? 70? 75? 80?
And we're supposed to believe you were going to make her, healthy or
not, come all this way?
Ah mojo? love the rants and realize you are an equal opportunity offender
:-)...but i want you to know my 72 year old mother learned to rappel
:this
year, skis and rides her bike 50+ miles a week......ok?
oh, and right now she's on her way across the atlantic.....on a boat.....
sue k
My 76 year old mom and dad are at Woods Hole right now on a research ship.
If they had a chance to go to Pearl Islands, they would certainly jump on
it!
Are you all saying virtually no one got Mojo's joke?

He's exaggerating and generalizing for comic effect. I know there are exceptions
to his "grandmother rule." So?

And I don't want him to stop exaggerating and saying the outrageous, lest his
rants cease to be comical. :-)

Two cents.
Thelittlewench
2003-11-29 16:04:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mojo
Further
note: the only time we see anyone eating fish this week is when Jon and
his deviant homosexual fornicating Loved One are left alone for a day at
Drake. I'd say that I hope they choke on it, but I suspect they are both
used to inserting long, clammy objects into each other's mouths
Nah, I bet its more more like scrawny stubby objects. :o)
Douglas Berry
2003-11-29 19:36:37 UTC
Permalink
Lo, many moons past, on 29 Nov 2003 16:04:50 GMT, a stranger called by
some ***@aol.com (Thelittlewench) came forth and told this
tale in alt.tv.survivor
Post by Thelittlewench
Post by Mojo
Further
note: the only time we see anyone eating fish this week is when Jon and
his deviant homosexual fornicating Loved One are left alone for a day at
Drake. I'd say that I hope they choke on it, but I suspect they are both
used to inserting long, clammy objects into each other's mouths
Nah, I bet its more more like scrawny stubby objects. :o)
Rule One: Don't visualize.

Rule Two: Really don't visualize.

Rule Three: If you must visualize, don't share.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
Byron Walter
2003-11-29 17:07:03 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Mojo...

...for taking the time to recap the S7 antics of the week. The effectiveness
of your wit is evident by all the response here. Naturally there are those
amongst us that are unable to differentiate between satire and reality
(which makes it even better!).


Byron
Michael Falkner
2003-12-03 03:00:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mojo
"Midnight in Tijuana"
"Loved Ones, Lies, and Dumbasses"
"The grandmother of all lies" (obvious)
"Baghdad Jonny and the search for the MBIs"
Jeff: "Burton said it best. It's not about trust anymore. It's about
Mutually Beneficial Interests."
I think it's gotten down to the point that the entire series is just a
bunch of sharks circling around each other with knives in their teeth.
There's NO trust on this island. And what little trust there might
be won't be long for this game.
Post by Mojo
Jon: "I though tonight's Tribal Council was probably one of my proudest
moments in this game." Yeah, right up there with being drunk at a
previous TC, hitting on Darrah during a Reward Challenge, your UPN
wrestling slogans, and your crying and whining at the drop of a coconut.
Asshole.
Jon, referring to the missing fish: "That was the most idiotic, childish
thing I've seen since this game has begun." Yeah, but that's only
because you don't have a mirror.
No, he pulled Le Grande Dame of idiotic and childish behavior (much
less that it was ILLEGAL!!!) two days later! Seriously, I can't think
that Burnett doesn't have big plans for him now. I can't see Jon
losing until at least the Final Four, and no one in their right mind
would not take him to the Final Two even if he lost the final IC.
Post by Mojo
On the seventh day of Survivor, Mark Burnett gave to me...
Seven boring contestants,
Which is the biggest problem of the show: This the most uninspiring
group of louts ever assembled for the series, and it's been evident
from Day Freaking One, when Rupert dominated the first eight shows of
the series because he was the single-handed reason people could watch.

Then, they jerry-rig an IC he can't win so he gets tossed at the
Council of Eight, and the game goes into Full Asshole Overdrive.
Post by Mojo
Six rotting fishes,
Sandra should be disqualified as well for that little manuever.

Again, the lie of trying to pin it on Christa is not DQable, though,
in this case, since the foul is sanctionable, the producers should've
found out what happened and applied the proper penalty.
Post by Mojo
Five clueless jurors!
Probably five clueless Council members, but only two jurors exist. :)

(Now three.)
Post by Mojo
Four Drakes a'dumbass,
Three Morgan whiners,
Two evil Outcasts,
And one lying son of a bitch.
And it's that lying SOB that has the inside track to winning it all --
much like no one thought Richard could win Pulau Tiga.
Post by Mojo
Christa: "I can't believe Rupert got voted off tonight. Maybe I've been
too cocky all along, thinking I know what's going on." Yeah, especially
when your so-called alliance partner's vote was the one that sealed
Rupert's fate. Maybe next time you'd better make damn sure you and
Sandra are on the same page before you vote? Maybe now, with your big
wall o' Rupert gone, you'll start _playing_ the game? Before it plays
you?
Nope. Christa is getting played like a fiddle. Can't see her going
past this week or next -- for the reason you gave. Sandra is the
other bitch in this game, and a realistic possibility exists that both
of the Final Two should've been disqualified for actions revealed in
last week's episode.

All for ratings, right Mark???
Post by Mojo
Sandra, to Lying Bastard Jon, and the whole group: "You are a lying son
of a bitch. You cannot be trusted. You are a liar. I hope these three
ladies turn on your ass, 'cause you cannot be trusted. You are a lying
bastard." Note: she's saying all of this just after knocking over the
bucket of fish that Rupert caught earlier that day. Sandra doesn't want
the others enjoying the fruit of Rupert's Herculean labors. Further
note: the only time we see anyone eating fish this week is when Jon and
his deviant homosexual fornicating Loved One are left alone for a day at
Drake. I'd say that I hope they choke on it, but I suspect they are both
used to inserting long, clammy objects into each other's mouths.
The fact is that Sandra is trying to manuever herself for a Final Two
with Jon. That appears to be the route the game is going at this
time.

Talk about clueless: There's FIVE WOMEN in this tribe. Are they that
lazy that they need the lying SOB and his manipulate bunkmate?
Post by Mojo
Burton: "Who threw the fish out?" Sandra? Noooo, because she's too busy
yelling and complaining. Note: Sandra understands American politics.
Whenever a politician or political party is guilty of something, look to
them to scream loudest and longest, and try to deflect attention by
complaining about something else while assigning blame to others. Sorta
like when the Fox News Channel screams on and on about being "fair and
balanced", when anyone with a brain can clearly see they are anything
but. Both Fox News and Jon share a similar definition of "fair".
Which is why Jon is playing the wrestling heel persona perfectly.

The problem is, he might play it so perfectly that he might be walking
out of Survivor with a very public black eye.

(And you can take that a couple of ways.)
Post by Mojo
Burton: "Christa, you did it." Yeah, there ya go, Burton. No proof
whatsoever, and you immediately accuse both remaining Drake women. Both
remaining members of Rupert's alliance. Both of whom you can't wait to
vote off. Yeah, like you haven't had it in for Christa from Day One.
S'matter, she turn you down before puppy dog Michelle latched on to your
leg? Oh wait, that doesn't matter, 'cause you're obviously gay. 31, San
Francisco, single, well-groomed, great with a blow gun and other long,
cylindrical objects, would rather play with guys, can't find a Loved One
other than your grandmother to fly in to save your butt...need I go on?
Maybe he's as big an asshole as Jon -- and you can't have been
surprised that they couldn't find a GF for Jon... That kind of
asshol-ery is legendary.
Post by Mojo
Poor Christa. She just lost her security blanket, and now this. And
she's just not the type of person to try and falsely accuse someone else
just to save herself. Which means, of course, that anyone wanting to
find someone to help them get to an F3 or even an F2 situation may want
to make an alliance with Christa. So, the situation may yet work to her
advantage.
No. Christa doesn't make it that far. That would be a mistake. I'm
betting they toss either Lill or Christa this week -- the other goes
next week, and then IT IS ON...
Post by Mojo
Lill: "I think she [Christa] did it." And you're basing that opinion
on..what? Burton's biased ravings? Sandra's denials? What, did your
scouting skills allow you to carefully track the fish-dumper's
footprints back to Christa? Was there an acute fish smell on Christa's
fingernails? Long blonde hairs on the fish? Did the hermit crabs who
found the fish during the night come and whisper in your ear? Should we
now refer to you as Aquawoman, Queen of the Seven Dumbasses? Lillian, if
you've got any proof, or even a decent working hypothesis as to why
Christa and not anyone else, please, elucidate. Otherwise, get off your
damn horse.
Lill is trying to retain a high ground this game left long ago. She
is by far the only likeable player left, and, in no uncertain terms,
that will most certainly be her downfall, and VERY VERY SOON.

I can't see her lasting two more weeks.
Post by Mojo
Sandra: "They never pointed the finger at me." Well, why should Burton
think you were upset about Rupert getting voted off? You helped send him
home!
Which probably means it was all according to Sandra's plan.
Post by Mojo
Reward Challenge: what, you call _this_ a reward? Colby and Momma
spending the night together again? Do we really want to see that? And
why now? It's what, Day 28? As in, 11 Days left? These people can't go a
week without seeing their Loved Ones? I find the timing suspect. Maybe
if the reward had been slightly altered, say, seeing a Loved One versus
having a nice meal (to be determined by the others, 'natch), or seeing a
Loved One versus winning a new car (remember when "Survivor" gave away
cars?), that might have made it more interesting. But spending the night
with Mom or some guy from high school you're not even dating is just not
interesting television.
I think the car challenge is still coming. I do remember one season,
though, that the car was actually part of the reward with the loved
one.
Post by Mojo
Ok, folks, here's where it occurs. This is the moment that changes
"Survivor" forever. Forget your Twists, your False Merges, your
Outcasts. This is it: having a "Loved One" spread a deliberate lie
during a challenge. The only saving grace here is that the reward
"earned" through the lie isn't something substantial, like, say, a
chocolate bar or Immunity. But this tactic has been introduced, and that
genie is out for ever. From now on, anything a Loved One says at a
challenge, or writes in a letter or says in a video, can and must be
viewed with skepticism by the other players. Grandma only lives twice.
I would disagree strongly!!!!

I think the reward WAS significant. The other tribemates were forced
to leave their camp and what shelter they had for the night. They had
little food for the night, while Jon was basically with his buddy and
they were able to probably exhaust the remaining fish from the tribe.

He gets stronger -- in several ways -- while the rest of the tribe
weakens.

All due to illegal outside interference.
Post by Mojo
Jon: "Oh dude! How's grandma? How's grandma?"
Thunder D (and no, I don't want to know how he got _that_ name): "The
owls are not what they appear."
Jon: "Dude, I said 'How's grandma'! You know, grandma?"
Thunder D: "Agent Prufrock says Morgan's treasure is still buried."
Jon: "DUDE! SHUT THE FUCK UP AND TELL ME 'HOW'S GRANDMA'?!?"
Thunder D: "Jon, I'm very cross wit you. Did you know you left the
toilet seat up before you left? And where did you learn to sort laundry?
I'm still trying to get all your puce away from the mauve."
Jon, fuming: "Ok, one last time. Dude, how's grandma?"
Thunder D: "She died, dude."
Jon: "Dude?"
Thunder D: "Dude."
Jon: "Dude."
Thunder D: "Did you get the letter?" Translation: they had this
well-planned. They had a letter ready to go, and I'm sure they made a
video as well. Jon shakes his head. Jeff stands by, non-chalant,
uncaring. If he knows the truth at this point, he does an admirable job
of self-restraint.
Premeditated collusion. They had this planned from the time Jon was
selected for the show.
Post by Mojo
Why, oh why, did no one question him on this?
Simple. They had a trust that when a loved one comes on the island and
gives that info, the info has to be true. This is why I agree with
the one poster here that there really can't be another Big Lie, even
though it is pretty certain that people will try.

I am saddened to think what's going to happen in the All-Star season,
or, worse, NEXT YEAR...
Post by Mojo
Ok, a couple of notes: first, Jon never actually told a lie. He left
that up to Twinkletoes. He _participated_ in a deception, true, for all
the good it'll do him, but he didn't say the words. Second, Jon wisely
chose to sit next to Lill. Lill believes anything anyone tells her. I
suppose you could say her compassion supercedes her judgement, or you
could just call her a complete and utter dumbass. Hasn't anyone there
told her about Jon thinking himself The Puppet Master? Wasn't Lill
listening when Sandra chewed Jon out the night before, about all his
deceptions and manipulations?
And THAT is why Jon needs to be disqualified. The lie itself was told
by a person OUTSIDE THE SIXTEEN. The game is supposed to be played by
the sixteen and the sixteen alone. Period -- end.
Post by Mojo
Anyway, notice how it's Lill, and not Jon, who helps the lie along by
repeating it to the group as the challenge progresses. Jon doesn't need
to do a damn thing at this point but sit back and win a night of hot
anal sex with his homosexual co-fornicator. Jonny Fairplay gonn' be
Jonny Foreplay tonight!
And you can bet that Lill is screwed either way. They find out, and
she's next after they keelhaul Jon. They don't, and she goes as the
most likeable person in the tribe. As I said, she's not long.
Post by Mojo
For the record, Burton lets Jon claim his "reward", noting "it's the
worst day of his life." The others signal their agreement, dumbasses
all. Jon then hugs Tijuana and Darrah. Probably the first time he's
hugged a woman in years. Jon then races over to hug his soulmate,
Twinkletoes. Burton, you maroon. You ignoranimous.
No, I think if Burton knows the situation, he also knows what's in
play. He'll carry Jon as far as he can.
Post by Mojo
Pssst, hey, Burton? Hey, now's your chance to show everyone what a
He-Man provider you are. Five starving women, a desert island, and you
with your big ol' machete and a few matches. I just hope you don't
experience any, umm,...performance anxiety, y'know?
Mighty Hunter Burton displays his skills by sneaking up on a moldy old
coconut and hacking it with his machete. Gee, I hope those matches taste
good tonight.
This is the damage that the illegal outside deception caused.
Post by Mojo
Jon: "That was a brilliant performance, sir! Now come, give daddy a
kiss."
Twinkletoes D: "Thank you! Don't mind if I do."
Jon: "Did you like mine?"
Twinkletoes D: "I'll like yours a whole lot better tonight after I've
painted you to look like a snake and greased up your backside with fish
oil."
Jon: "Well now, aren't you in luck? I've been saving up coconut husks
under my secret bush, and I've knitted you a Burton wig and beard. Oh
yeah, mama's gonna get some lovin' tonight!"
Jon: "My grandmother's sitting home, watching Jerry Springer right now."
Yup, it's always Springer Time back home in the ancestral Dalton
doublewide palacial mansion.
I would say that's probably a pretty good bet.

But that revelation should cost Jon the money. Period, end.
Post by Mojo
Day 29, 10 days left, back to the ol' scheming and plotting... the
stranded players return to Balboa, Jon has a tearful farewell with his
homosexual crime partner, and...no one asks about Jon's dearly departed
^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I think you said it best.

And as far as why no one would ask -- they figure the one day is
enough and it's on with the machinations to win a million dollars and
a new career.
Post by Mojo
So, Sandra points out to Tijuana that, if they don't band together now,
Burton and Jon will pick them off one by one. They want Christa gone
And then Sandra picks her off.
Post by Mojo
Another clue for future Survivors: when you want to sneak off and have a
strategy session with your alliance partner, don't do it at night. It's
much easier to see when others are lurking nearby, listening to your
conversation, during the daytime. (Btw, thank you, MB, for adding
additional night time cameras. No more off-camera Ted/Ghandia sexual
hijinks on this show, nosiree!)
Especially that they would probably have cameras on them too...
Post by Mojo
What? Jeff blew it? They have to go to Sudden Death, with "outwit
outplay outlast" as the new words? And they have to make words of four
letters or more? In only a minute? Aww, screw you, Probst. I'm not doing
this again. Where's my check?
And I'm surprised that he didn't say the three words could not be
used...
Post by Mojo
Bye, Tijuana. You were lovely and graceful, spirited and beautiful,
right up to the moment you got greedy and egomaniacal and became a
complete dumbass. Enjoy your parting gifts.
Basically, she became the played instead of the player. At this
point, that's why I don't think Lill is much longer for this mess.
Post by Mojo
Sandra (votes Tijuana): "You came to our tribe and you tried to delegate
what we were going to do and how we were going to do it. Frankly, we're
sick and tired of you. By the way, happy birthday. Take care, goodbye,
adios."
The manipulative motherfucking bitch strikes again. Between her and
Jon, there will be lawsuits in this madness.
Post by Mojo
Darrah (votes Burton): "Burton, I'm voting for you only because you're
the biggest threat we have right now and this is the only chance that
you won't win immunity. Thanks for being a friend and being respectful
to T and I for bringing us into the alliance with you."
Unless Burton knows the other tribemates well, there's still Fallen
Comrades at the Council of Four (approx.).
Post by Mojo
Christa (votes Tijuana): "You're very rude, disrespectful; you like to
order people around. And I just don't want you around anymore." Well,
I'm sure she'd say the same about you, except that you're being edited
differently.
After her whiny display. Thing is, she probably makes the Final Five,
but then it's between her and Darrah who goes next.
Post by Mojo
Burton (votes Tijuana): "T, I know it's your birthday tomorrow and I
don't think one of us is going to be here to see it. But I have some
advice for you a day early. Never assume you are in control of a
situation until you're 100 percent assured."
Another knife wound.
Post by Mojo
Lillian (votes Tyuana): "Tijuana, it's a little bit of payback time.
You didn't think anything about getting rid of me. You broke our
alliance with some wonderful people. They brought you in and saved you.
And now you want to get rid of our main source of food, Burton. I say
no. I'm here to protect Burton. I think it's time for you to go."
The only source of honor left in the game -- and, as a result, about
to take the long walk herself. I can't think of too many scenarios at
this point that would not have her a 6-1 or 7-0 jury winner. And I
think anyone with smarts votes her off.
Post by Mojo
Tijuana (votes Burton): "Burton, this vote is for you, not because
you're not a good person. You're not only a good person, you're a hard
worker around camp. You raise our spirits and we appreciate everything
you've done. So it's nothing against you personally. It's merely the
fact that you are the strongest player here mentally and physically. On
top of that, as you know, I heard Jon and you talking. And you had a lot
of differences from what you were telling us, versus what you told Jon.
And it just contradicts our alliance. So that's why this vote is for
you, but again, good blessings to you. I hope that in the end when this
is all over we'll be friends."
But T was the played and not the player. Which see Jon and Lill.
Post by Mojo
Homosexual Foreplay (votes Tijuana): "Say your prayers. Take your
vitamins and (you will never go wrong)." Whatever.
He pulled the Hogan one this week??? I didn't watch the
confessionals. (I save the surprise for when Jeff counts the votes.)
Post by Mojo
Aww geez, six left and those two stupid Outcasts are _still_ around!?!
They're practically guaranteed to make the Final Four! Oh well. I really
don't care who wins at this point, because, once again, it'll be some
untalented, mediocre schemer who didn't excel at anything except
avoiding placing a bullseye on their back. Yay us.
The Outcasts are in it -- that's one violation of the central precept
of the game.

Jon's still in it -- a second central violation.

Sandra's still in it -- a THIRD!!!

You know Lill is next -- she's the only remote sense of honor left,
and, hence, the threat to get four votes off the jury almost by
default.

This entire game is speeding off a cliff. It's time to actually see
what's allowed and what's not. Between this shit and "American
Idol"'s chicanery, it's time to write the FCC and see what's allowed
in this and what is not...

Again, my question: If Burnett has full right to do what he wants,
when he wants, what stops him from naming a winner and altering votes
if necessary???

Mike

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